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Post by Chris-C on Mar 3, 2015 19:18:07 GMT -5
and cubonwallstreet, the sky is falling so sell everything and move to the moon are you for real? I'm thinking (hoping?) cub was being sarcastic, but it's sometimes difficult to discern on a message board unless folks use emoticons or other graphic signals.
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Post by liane on Mar 3, 2015 19:25:14 GMT -5
I was being sarcastic, of course. Whew! - I was beginning to worry about you.
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Post by hankscorpio7 on Mar 3, 2015 19:28:14 GMT -5
Haha. I had the same thoughts reading through the 10k. But nothing in it is new. It just slams you in the face again how stacked the deck is here. You are correct- there is a scenario where this goes bust and SNY gets everything for a few milestone payments and nothing to shareholders. Again, this is business. What does MNKD have for collateral for a potential $175m loan? Shares would be zilch so have to put up tangibles. Would Al Mann let that happen? Never. His numbered sons might or whatever entity controls his shares after but that's another day. 10k has to be free and clear of misleading investors- it paints a very bleak picture. Some investors got ahead of themselves and set the stage for GS. MNKD should not be above $5, maybe $3. Dilution killed us. When scripts get above 5k, time to reevaluate. Insiders knew this and sold often. GS does have a valid point about reimbursements- we have been guessing at profit margins. Express scripts is changing the playing field.
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Post by notamnkdmillionaire on Mar 3, 2015 19:44:37 GMT -5
I believe Matt stated in a CC many months ago that Mannkind does have a say in how Afrezza is marketed and that Mannkind has a way out if they believe Sanofi is not holding true to their agreement. Someone might want to chime in if they remember that conversation.
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Post by cubonwallstreet on Mar 3, 2015 20:07:38 GMT -5
We will chalk it up to Poe's Law
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Post by babaoriley on Mar 3, 2015 20:20:20 GMT -5
I said my good bye's over a month ago however when it came down to parting with all of my shares I just couldn't do it, I did dump 75% of my holdings of this stock. My rational for holding on to a portion is due to the science and the belief in the product, the reason for selling was based on the shamefully stupid management at this company. I've never shorted a stock in my life and you can call me a basher if you like however for just one moment consider what I'm saying in a truly objective position. Everything is riding on how well Sny promotes and sells Affrezza. MNKD doesn't have any commitment from SNY to deliver or even try to market this product. MNKD borrowed money from SNY and everything in the company is collateral. MNKD signed a commitment to purchase a tremendous amount of insulin that they can't pay for unless SNY sells alot of Affrezza (Novel idea, a commitment). Inability to to purchase the insulin puts MNKD in default, MNKD will have to look for sources of capital (loan). Who in their right mind would loan them the kind of money they need? MNKD can't pay SNY, SNY becomes the new owner of affrezza and everything MNKD. Shareholder are left holding -0- nothing. If you think this scenario is far fetched it only takes one thing to put this whole chain of events into motion and from everything I've seen from SNY it's already begun. I'm completely dumbfounded that MNKD management would put this company at so much risk, they are completely incompetent business people. To sign a contract with SNY and not have a commitment, borrow money from them, use the company as collateral and give them complete control of whether or not it can be paid back, and then commit to purchase 100s of millions of dollars of insulin? What in the hell is wrong with them? The science, the product, the benefit of Affrezza are all outstanding, the management of this company is appalling! My last 10K shares are gone tomorrow. Good luck to all of you, I really do hope you do well. For me I'll get out with a little profit and move on. Jury, you're clearly not a lawyer, but yet you are giving some strong legal opinions. If you are a lawyer, then perhaps you don't practice anymore, or maybe you were never introduced to or forgot a few almost universal tenets of law. First, if MNKD has committed to buy the insulin unconditionally (I don't know this, you say you do), and they don't need it, they aren't forced to comply with the contract and just keep buying - if they default, they pay damages, which may not be all that much, depending on how much the seller is actually damaged. Second, now skipping to the MannKind - Sanofi deal, every contract has an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing attached to it in the United States, and I very much doubt French law governs their dealings, especially with so much happening here in the USA and particularly in California and Connecticut. So, if Sanofi were to attempt a fast one, can you imagine how easy it would be for several of 1200 sales reps to turn on Sanofi and let the cat out of the bag, or one or more of several executives that knew about the plan to screw MannKind to turn on Sanofi and screw them? You know, Sanofi couldn't fire anyone that might have had knowledge of this plot to do in MannKind, for fear of disclosure of this plot. Can you even imagine the kind of damages MannKind might prove up against Sanofi, and there may well be punitive damages involved for breach of a fiduciary duty, which may be found as the result of this joint venture. You have been on this same horse since last fall, so why are you still involved, nothing has changed vis a vis MannKind and Sanofi, so this Sword of Damocles that you have fashioned still hangs over MannKind's neck as far as your concerned. And why have you chosen to surface today, of all days? If your argument had any merit, don't you think AF or someone else would have used it already? I wonder why they haven't? Is it because you are the only one clever enough to conjure it up? Think back over your entire life, Jury, have you ever really been a clever person? Have you ever before come up with something so profound as your thoughts on Sanofi's bona fides and been correct? Were you the guy that always thought out of the box in school or work and when presented with your thinking your audience said, "wow," instead of "what?" Think back and remember the looks some of those people who you ran your novel ideas by had on their faces as you spoke. Were they looks of admiration and respect, or astonishment? In your particular argument about Sanofi being able to and intending to sandbag MannKind, can you imagine the looks on some of our faces when we read it? Of course, most of us are bias, but run that argument by some others, perhaps a practicing lawyer or two and see what they think. Look, if diabetics don't like Afrezza, MannKind will fail, if they do go for it, MannKind will succeed, but the extent of their success does depend on a lot of factors yet to be determined. If Sanofi reps come back after a year and say, "geez, we can't give this stuff away," well, I assume Sanofi may well consider pulling the plug. The longs here will all be very disappointed and many a good bit poorer, but it won't be Sanofi's fault, it will be the fact that the market did not embrace the product. Most here feel this is only a minor risk. The risk of Sanofi being in bad faith from the get go is really very, very slim. They would risk their reputation, not to mention their treasury, not really the way to do business. By the way, my dispassionate, objective conclusion is that you are a basher - and I'm calling you that because I do enjoy it, and I thank you for your prior written consent, "you can call me a basher if you like." Please do sell your remaining 10k shares - as if.
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Post by cubonwallstreet on Mar 3, 2015 20:40:25 GMT -5
Tell us how you really feel, baba
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Post by mnholdem on Mar 3, 2015 20:52:35 GMT -5
jurystillout,
You write, "...and you can call me a basher if you like however for just one moment consider what I'm saying in a truly objective position."
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I remember posting a similar observation after my initial knee-jerk reaction to the deal. I went so far as to recommend that Al Mann (& voters, of course) split the company to separate and protect the Technosphere platformin the event that Sanofi were to intentionally bankrupt MannKind via insurmountable expenses, in order to acquire Afrezza by default. But I kept reading and managed to find the protection that management (Al Mann) made damn certain was included in the Agreement and which would guarantee that MannKind would be protected from such egregious and nefarious intentions, should they ever be attempted by Sanofi-Aventis.
It's The Committee, which is written into the Agreement and to which each company assigns four (4) members. All budgets related to manufacturing, marketing, development and sales must be approved in advance by this eight-member committee. If at any time, either Party becomes aware that they may exceed their allotted or budgeted expense (performance KPIs are to be reviewed monthly) they must bring the issue before the Committee for review. In short, the company responsible for the excess expense must absorb that excess unless determined otherwise by Committee.
So I have looked at your comments, the issue related to your comments and considered it in an objective fashion. Therefore, since you gave me permission to call you a basher if I like, I do so now knight thee in the name of ProBoard-MNKD and pronounce thee (and thy companion a few posts later) to be Sir Basher of the GS Roundtable.
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Due diligence means you must further study to try to understand why something is bothering you. Simply reading a few lines in an Agreement and then running off screaming "the sky is falling" doesn't cut it. If you were being honest and sincere, my apologies - and condolences - but, frankly, I don't think you or your post are sincere in the least.
Good fortune to you, Sir Basher
PS - The collateral assigned to Sanofi makes perfect sense, if you consider that start up of the Technosphere pipeline may incur unexpected expenses which could put the manufacturer of Afrezza at risk. Sanofi is simply protecting itself and, in my mind, indicates how badly they want Afrezza and confirms that they intend to protect it.
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Post by bighaus89 on Mar 4, 2015 11:34:51 GMT -5
You're awesome Baba.
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Post by babaoriley on Mar 4, 2015 12:45:34 GMT -5
Awesome, clearly not, but thanks, bighaus. However, sometimes I do get stirred to action! Takes a lot at this age....
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