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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 16:59:07 GMT -5
From everything I've read and heard about technosphere from the company, they speak of targeting particular areas that would be good candidates for T. What's missing is whether any of the company's that own those "targeted" drugs are interested in T? So far, MNKD has stated what they intend to do but what of the other side of that equation? What about other drug companies? I ask because it's been quiet as far as I know in that direction. While MNKD is interested, is anyone else? So much of what we do is out of need. And while it would be awesome to have a pain killer take effect in minutes instead of 30 minutes, is it really necessary? Is it filling a need? Would anyone be willing to pay a premium for it? We would all answer "absolutely I would pay for it" right up until you've been given the choice - "pay 5 bucks per pill but it takes 30 min or pay 15 bucks to inhale and it works in minutes". So, wondering if there's been any clarity on this so far from MNKD?
On another note, a big part of me believes that MNKD put a gag on talking about T for, what - 3 yrs is it? - so they don't have to answer any of these types of questions, particularly the one about whether anyone else is interested. And, I don't mean interested like people are interested in going to the moon. I mean interested in "let me open my checkbook because YES".
Looking for perspective if anyone has one to share based on real info from MNKD.
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Post by spiro on Apr 25, 2015 18:08:30 GMT -5
Davinci,
In Spiro's opinion, you need to research a little more on the debilitating aspects of migraine headaches and asthma, including the liver toxicity of numerous drugs before you post. There is a huge market for potential Technosphere applications. We would all like for MNKD to give us more information about their plans for Technosphere, but that would also reveal their hand to competition, since other companies also have inhalation powders. When MNKD has all the necessary details completed regarding their next Technosphere project, they will announce it. But it's going to be on their schedule not ours. Hopefully, they get it done right.
Spiro here, If Techosphere was good enough to get it done with insulin, can you imagine the potential with much less complicated drug treatments. Only a short would think otherwise.
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Post by notamnkdmillionaire on Apr 25, 2015 18:25:51 GMT -5
All I know is that management has been less than forthright. The two drugs they licensed out to Colby and Tolero for upfront cash must have been IOUs because we never found out how much that so called up front cash was for. I don't think there was any unless they gave Al a C note and said thanks! And as far as I can tell, both companies have done nothing with those two drugs to date.
It also tells you that the company put all its eggs in one basket with Afrezza instead of trying to strike deals for other drugs using technosphere. That might have happened due to the 2nd CRL when the FDA reversed course on the company and they decided to put everything on hold and license out the two drugs mentioned above while trying to conserve cash.
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Post by spiro on Apr 25, 2015 18:49:23 GMT -5
Spiro is willing to give them until January to get this done right. It's obvious that their financial weakness has slowed them down a bit. Spiro and about 2000 other diabetics, personally know that Afrezza is the real deal. Sanofi knows that too by now. Spiro is looking for them to start acquiring MNKD shares soon, if they haven't already begun doing so. This is what they do with the companies that they partner with, MNKD will be no different. It's painful for the longs now, but things can change rapidly with a puny biotech. If Spiro is wrong, Siberia is waiting.
Spiro here, using a ton of patience each trading day
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Post by kball on Apr 25, 2015 19:41:04 GMT -5
Spiro is willing to give them until January to get this done right. It's obvious that their financial weakness has slowed them down a bit. Spiro and about 2000 other diabetics, personally know that Afrezza is the real deal. Sanofi knows that too by now. Spiro is looking for them to start acquiring MNKD shares soon, if they haven't already begun doing so. This is what they do with the companies that they partner with, MNKD will be no different. It's painful for the longs now, but things can change rapidly with a puny biotech. If Spiro is wrong, Siberia is waiting. Spiro here, using a ton of patience each trading day Just a heads up...Afrezza unavailable there |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 23:24:31 GMT -5
Davinci, In Spiro's opinion, you need to research a little more on the debilitating aspects of migraine headaches and asthma, including the liver toxicity of numerous drugs before you post. There is a huge market for potential Technosphere applications. We would all like for MNKD to give us more information about their plans for Technosphere, but that would also reveal their hand to competition, since other companies also have inhalation powders. When MNKD has all the necessary details completed regarding their next Technosphere project, they will announce it. But it's going to be on their schedule not ours. Hopefully, they get it done right. Spiro here, If Techosphere was good enough to get it done with insulin, can you imagine the potential with much less complicated drug treatments. Only a short would think otherwise. I like you spiro, but some of your posts are.......(cough cough) I'm not short. "Only a short would think otherwise"....is a bull statement. I have the freedom to think in all directions without attaching a label to my thoughts. I can be long while poking holes in my entire thesis only to return to my original idea and stick with my long position. Does that process make me or anyone a short for simply thinking about other possibilities? And, I have asthma and I take advair. My wife struggles with migraines. So, respectfully, me thinks spiro needs to........... There may be a huge market for T but that's not what I asked in my post. |
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Post by babaoriley on Apr 25, 2015 23:40:07 GMT -5
davinci, you write this: "So much of what we do is out of need. And while it would be awesome to have a pain killer take effect in minutes instead of 30 minutes, is it really necessary? Is it filling a need? Would anyone be willing to pay a premium for it? We would all answer "absolutely I would pay for it" right up until you've been given the choice - "pay 5 bucks per pill but it takes 30 min or pay 15 bucks to inhale and it works in minutes"."
And then you question why some (Spiro is not alone) consider you a disingenuous poster? Gee, pound my head with a hammer for an extra 20 - 30 minutes so I can save the cost of a couple of cups of Starbucks coffee? Look at it this way, all those you see in those coffee houses will pay extra, people who don't have much money will wish they could afford it, but can't, and so won't pay. How about ten cents a pill v. $5 for the inhaled version - big difference, yet I'd like to market the $5 stuff all day long. I have no clue what it would cost, but unless the cost is truly prohibitive, plenty of people will use it. And I believe you know that.
And I'll bet your wife doesn't struggle with migraines, so my heart strings weren't pulled any. Just my way of thinking about other possibilities.
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Post by lynn on Apr 26, 2015 0:03:24 GMT -5
I'm happy to see some of the old blood back (& it has nothing to do with age) . I don't for a second think I'm so blinded by my affection for Mannkind, which at this point is ONLY Afrezza , to not see the Forrest for the trees ...
Yes , I'm frustrated by the SP, yes, I'm frustrated by the script #'s , but as a RN , who genuinely cares about the well being of others , it's what the early adopters are saying that gives me some peace of mind : )
I do hope and believe that most newcomers here have good intentions , but some seem to want to shake the tree & tho I haven't spent much time in Apple Orchards , I'd guess that the rotten ones fall first as they seem to weigh more ,)
Just another random post after a long day at work ....
Sorry ,)
Lynn
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Post by jpg on Apr 26, 2015 0:26:28 GMT -5
Davinci,
Generic ibuprofen can probably be found for about 10-20 cents a pill if you buy in bulk and 50 cents- 1$ a pill for the branded stuff in small quantities at corner stores. That is a factor of at least 5 and people (including me) regularly buy it quickly if we have pain. We don't find the nearest low cost supplier. Convenience and speed matter.
How much more would people pay to get almost instant relief? I don't know but I have no doubt there is a market. How big a market? Don't know but do know it is a function of marketing and price. Like baba says some pay over 2 times the price of regular coffee for daily morning coffee (and 3 times the 'regular' price for my computing needs because they are Apple). Yes you can make counter arguments and have freedom to think but at the same time posters have the right to consider your premises as flawed as you consider theirs flawed...
As for your suffering from asthma and your wife getting migraines: what does that have to do with anything? I've seen patients code from asthma because they couldn't get relief fast enough (this being said I don't necessarily see the benefit of technosphere in asthma unless it's a different class of medication then beta agonists or inhaled steroids).
Patients regularly go to the ER for a migraine. You don't think these patients wouldn't like a simple low cost solution? Have you seen the average price of a US ER visit recently? I think plenty of people would pay 15$ to avoid spending 1 hour in the ER and I am certain a bunch of insurers would feel the same.
All of this is relatively standard knowledge in health care marketing and marketing at large I thought?
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Post by bobw on Apr 26, 2015 8:03:35 GMT -5
I found the following in about 2 minutes of searching. www.goodrx.com/migranal/priceThis appears to be a nasally administered migraine medication that is close to $3,000 per script. I don't know anything about it, but it looks like at least some people are willing to pay a premium to treat their migraine headaches. |
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Post by notamnkdmillionaire on Apr 26, 2015 9:44:53 GMT -5
I found the following in about 2 minutes of searching. www.goodrx.com/migranal/priceThis appears to be a nasally administered migraine medication that is close to $3,000 per script. I don't know anything about it, but it looks like at least some people are willing to pay a premium to treat their migraine headaches. If you know anyone who suffers from migraines or ever had one yourself, you know that you want to get rid of the pain as fast as possible. If Mannkind ever gets around to doing something other than that pesky Afrezza stuff and can manufacture an ULTRA rapid acting pain med to relieve migraines in a matter of minutes if not seconds, then it will have a frickin blockbuster on its hands. This is all assuming it is also a fraction of the price of other migraine meds out there. |
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Post by rockstarrick on Apr 26, 2015 9:46:38 GMT -5
From everything I've read and heard about technosphere from the company, they speak of targeting particular areas that would be good candidates for T. What's missing is whether any of the company's that own those "targeted" drugs are interested in T? So far, MNKD has stated what they intend to do but what of the other side of that equation? What about other drug companies? I ask because it's been quiet as far as I know in that direction. While MNKD is interested, is anyone else? So much of what we do is out of need. And while it would be awesome to have a pain killer take effect in minutes instead of 30 minutes, is it really necessary? Is it filling a need? Would anyone be willing to pay a premium for it? We would all answer "absolutely I would pay for it" right up until you've been given the choice - "pay 5 bucks per pill but it takes 30 min or pay 15 bucks to inhale and it works in minutes". So, wondering if there's been any clarity on this so far from MNKD? On another note, a big part of me believes that MNKD put a gag on talking about T for, what - 3 yrs is it? - so they don't have to answer any of these types of questions, particularly the one about whether anyone else is interested. And, I don't mean interested like people are interested in going to the moon. I mean interested in "let me open my checkbook because YES". Looking for perspective if anyone has one to share based on real info from MNKD. One thing you didn't mention, if you orally take a drug, 95% of that medication is neutralized by the stomach acid due to the pH in your stomach. Inhalation is more efficient, requiring less medicine for faster and better results. So if inhaling takes far less medication for the same result as ingestion, the price would be easily justified. Also, Amphastar produces generic versions of several drugs off patent. Imagine inhaled generics, they touched on this in a recent CC. The market for inhaled generics is absolutely huge. I shared a link to Amphastars CC's in a different thread. Just planting the seed, do your DD. !! Good Luck |
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Post by rockstarrick on Apr 26, 2015 9:52:51 GMT -5
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Post by _neil on Apr 26, 2015 16:38:17 GMT -5
davinci.. This discussion is pointless as to what value there is to inhalation for migraine headaches or asthma. Fact is MNKD has nothing of that sort now. Unless you are valuing the company on potential applications for Technosphere, we have to go by the reality that MNKD is all Afrezza- swim or sink. I hate the share price, I hate the management's tight lipped attitude and I hate the insider selling but I am unable to walk away since Afrezza's PK and simple math (5% capture of American T1s before the year ends) tell me that I should hang on and also cos I can't clearly identify what my exit price for a stop loss is. Maybe I am destined to be poorneil  |
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Post by mnholdem on Apr 26, 2015 17:10:17 GMT -5
Hakan stated that TS pipeline selections criteria include "unmet medical need" and "large market". We're talking migraine relief.
MannKind has selected the API (sumatriptan is indicated) and has an FDA-approved delivery method, which translates to what Hakan also mentioned - MannKind expects an expedited approval timeline. There are two manufacturers of the generic (India) sumatriptan MannKind can use for supply and, of course, there is GlaxoSmithKline, who could sign an agreement with MannKind to use its Imitrex(R) sumatriptan for migraine and cluster headache relief via Technosphere delivery.
Regardless, Hakan stated that shareholders can expect MannKind drug development announcements in 2015, but no FDA approvals will be likely until 2016 or 2017.
What more needs to be said?
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