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Post by sayhey24 on Sept 16, 2016 18:11:52 GMT -5
^ Still thinking that whole non compete excuse was a red herring. To save a reputation about changing mind due to circumstances . (it would be among the first few things to iron out before acceptance) Having said that, I'd welcome some new life to the company as we got a nice boost of energy with Mike, probably same w DD It was a bizarre situation and not a fun feeling when they withdrew. I'm not even remotely close to a legal expert but I found it odd it took some 19 days to initiate the non-compete clause, is that a normal time frame? And also lets say DeSisto backed out from SNY termination and MNKD wanted to save face, did either DD or MNKD go to Insulet and say hey guys can you please trigger this non-compete clause for us? I don't know why I even care about it anymore but it's still kind of bizarre. Through out 2015 SNY told me numerous times afrezza was in a controlled launch and they were using it as a learning experience for the real launch in 2016. In December they have the review meeting in San Diego and the rumor is they are blown away with the results. Soon after we have the Desisto announcement he is the new CEO and then a few days later no deal because of his non-compete. What was MNKD doing to compete with Insulet? A deal like Onduo does not happen over night. Normally a 2016 deal would have been budgeted by year end 2015. Then you have the lawyers from SNY and the lawyers from Verily. Getting a deal done by Labor Day would be around the right time if they started in January. Then you have Dexcom and no mention in the Onduo deal after paying Verily $100M to make the new miniaturized non-invasive CGM devices which Onduo will need. Josh Riff says he wants to address the mealtime BG issue and "remove the friction" for diabetics by reducing injections. I suspect a few more shoes will drop with Ondou. If Dexcom is not part of this I would expect Kevin Sayer has already talked to his lawyers. For Josh Riff, its not clear to me how he does what he wants without afrezza. If what DeSisto disclosed to Insulet was the Onduo concept and he was reading MNKD for sale to Ondou I could see Insulet being concerned. |
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Post by surplusvalue on Sept 16, 2016 18:55:35 GMT -5
It was a bizarre situation and not a fun feeling when they withdrew. I'm not even remotely close to a legal expert but I found it odd it took some 19 days to initiate the non-compete clause, is that a normal time frame? And also lets say DeSisto backed out from SNY termination and MNKD wanted to save face, did either DD or MNKD go to Insulet and say hey guys can you please trigger this non-compete clause for us? I don't know why I even care about it anymore but it's still kind of bizarre. Through out 2015 SNY told me numerous times afrezza was in a controlled launch and they were using it as a learning experience for the real launch in 2016. In December they have the review meeting in San Diego and the rumor is they are blown away with the results. Soon after we have the Desisto announcement he is the new CEO and then a few days later no deal because of his non-compete. What was MNKD doing to compete with Insulet? A deal like Onduo does not happen over night. Normally a 2016 deal would have been budgeted by year end 2015. Then you have the lawyers from SNY and the lawyers from Verily. Getting a deal done by Labor Day would be around the right time if they started in January. Then you have Dexcom and no mention in the Onduo deal after paying Verily $100M to make the new miniaturized non-invasive CGM devices which Onduo will need. Josh Riff says he wants to address the mealtime BG issue and "remove the friction" for diabetics by reducing injections. I suspect a few more shoes will drop with Ondou. If Dexcom is not part of this I would expect Kevin Sayer has already talked to his lawyers. For Josh Riff, its not clear to me how he does what he wants without afrezza. If what DeSisto disclosed to Insulet was the Onduo concept and he was reading MNKD for sale to Ondou I could see Insulet being concerned. The whole collaboration here (including the Novo/Watson one) is an approach that is very familiar; a reliance on a technology fix. L ooking at users reports clearly, Afrezza achieves as a prandial and beyond (as close to a "cure" by a return to normalization as reported by some) exactly what Riff is after but Sanofi and Novo dont have insulin products to match it. So instead they are going to try to shore up the deficiencies of their insulins by a reliance on monitoring technology instead. So by comparison they will not achieve what Afrezza can, but what may be important to them is that it creates an entire new space for profits and entrenching the same old insulins. Its a win win for both sides (the technology companies and big pharma) but not for the patients; it keeps them dependent and ill. It leads the patients to believe that the best they can hope for is a reduced number of injections instead of an actual improvement in their health; it reduces a potential improved quality of life to a quantitative measure. Neanderthal thinking wrapped in shiny new technology. I'm afraid they will do what they are trying to do and continue to be dismissive of Afrezza. They will reduce injections by more careful monitoring. This is for big pharma much cheaper than to try to continue to compete with each other by trying to develop better insulins and get them approved. Afrezza is a disruptive technology that threatens big pharma and Veilbacher was right about big pharma being burdened by a lumbering conservatism which is more interested in maintaining a growing corporate infrastructure than solving health problems. But you are right,the mind boggles at what could be achieved by pairing Afrezza with that very same technology. But another possible view is that if what we may be seeing about Afrezza, at least preliminarily from some users who are experiencing "normalization", it may mean that the need for continuous reliance monitoring technology may be less and the technology could be relegated, as Afrezza improves the condition of its users, to more of an adjunct role. And if the process of Afrezza use contributes to "normalization" among many as opposed to a few, then it would also reduce the number of basal injections (as already reported by some) as well. Illness is a cash cow. Afrezza is potentially very very disruptive. |
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Is it me?
Sept 16, 2016 19:20:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by saxcmann on Sept 16, 2016 19:20:56 GMT -5
Or disorientation,from all the punishment he's taken from owning this stock, mistaken for insight. More than a hunch but honestly Surplus is probably right. I have headaches lately from this stock! |
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Post by sportsrancho on Sept 16, 2016 19:53:16 GMT -5
Or disorientation,from all the punishment he's taken from owning this stock, mistaken for insight. More than a hunch but honestly Surplus is probably right. I have headaches lately from this stock! LQTM:-))). They haven't followed you as long as I have! |
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Post by sayhey24 on Sept 16, 2016 20:50:23 GMT -5
Surplus - I sure hope you are wrong about being "afraid they will do what they are trying to do and continue to be dismissive of Afrezza." I could be wrong but I hope they are taking the advice and guidance of guys like Steve Edelman who know the value of afrezza. IMO, the key for afrezza to break-through current market barriers is the technology revolution - the 24/7 monitoring and dosing guidance I am hoping Ondou and Watson/Nova will bring. Right now Onduo may be in a better position to bring to market a near non-invasive way to monitor and they are probably close to Watson with the dosing algorithms. I am hearing Onduo is putting performance deals together with the insurance companies. If so, afrezza will need to be front and center in their tool box so they can exceed their A1c goals for the bonus payments.
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Post by agedhippie on Sept 16, 2016 21:58:50 GMT -5
Surplus - I sure hope you are wrong about being "afraid they will do what they are trying to do and continue to be dismissive of Afrezza." I could be wrong but I hope they are taking the advice and guidance of guys like Steve Edelman who know the value of afrezza. IMO, the key for afrezza to break-through current market barriers is the technology revolution - the 24/7 monitoring and dosing guidance I am hoping Ondou and Watson/Nova will bring. Right now Onduo may be in a better position to bring to market a near non-invasive way to monitor and they are probably close to Watson with the dosing algorithms. I am hearing Onduo is putting performance deals together with the insurance companies. If so, afrezza will need to be front and center in their tool box so they can exceed their A1c goals for the bonus payments. Look at Onduo's mission statement: Onduo’s mission is to help people with diabetes live full, healthy lives by developing comprehensive solutions that combine devices, software, medicine, and professional care to enable simple and intelligent disease management.Their priorities are Type 2, over time - Type 1, and eventually pre-diabetes. In other words this is not about insulin specifically, it's about drug treatments in general. They are going to tie together things like meter uploads (the recent Glooko / Diasend merger is interesting in that respect) with analytics and data mining. That lets them see the sort of patterns we got out of DCCT or UKPDS but haven't been able to get since. As to devices - if they are concentrating on Type 2 that will be meters and one or two tests per day. Forget about 24/7 monitoring, that's not happening because of the costs. The current trend is to minimize the amount of testing done by Type 2 diabetics because there is a belief that it is not actionable - this is a sore topic amongst most proactive Type 2s who resort to buying extra strips out of pocket. |
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Post by surplusvalue on Sept 17, 2016 0:57:50 GMT -5
Surplus - I sure hope you are wrong about being "afraid they will do what they are trying to do and continue to be dismissive of Afrezza." I could be wrong but I hope they are taking the advice and guidance of guys like Steve Edelman who know the value of afrezza. IMO, the key for afrezza to break-through current market barriers is the technology revolution - the 24/7 monitoring and dosing guidance I am hoping Ondou and Watson/Nova will bring. Right now Onduo may be in a better position to bring to market a near non-invasive way to monitor and they are probably close to Watson with the dosing algorithms. I am hearing Onduo is putting performance deals together with the insurance companies. If so, afrezza will need to be front and center in their tool box so they can exceed their A1c goals for the bonus payments. Sayhey, I see the potential for Afrezza that you do but after considering everything that has happened the explanation I proposed in the post above as to what is likely going on is more consistent with how technology companies and big pharma operate, and where their interests lie. Everyone, including MNKD, thought that Sanofi would embrace Afrezza. That didn't even remotely take place. It was a rude awakening, or perhaps a reminder not to let one's projective wishes prevent one from seeing clearly that because Afrezza is disruptive its viewed as a threat that many will try to suppress or ignore. Not one company has embraced Afrezza to help make it a success. MNKD is unfortunately probably going to have to fight the good fight for the most part by itself just to get onto the playing field. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 5:27:45 GMT -5
It was a bizarre situation and not a fun feeling when they withdrew. I'm not even remotely close to a legal expert but I found it odd it took some 19 days to initiate the non-compete clause, is that a normal time frame? And also lets say DeSisto backed out from SNY termination and MNKD wanted to save face, did either DD or MNKD go to Insulet and say hey guys can you please trigger this non-compete clause for us? I don't know why I even care about it anymore but it's still kind of bizarre. Through out 2015 SNY told me numerous times afrezza was in a controlled launch and they were using it as a learning experience for the real launch in 2016. In December they have the review meeting in San Diego and the rumor is they are blown away with the results. Soon after we have the Desisto announcement he is the new CEO and then a few days later no deal because of his non-compete. What was MNKD doing to compete with Insulet? A deal like Onduo does not happen over night. Normally a 2016 deal would have been budgeted by year end 2015. Then you have the lawyers from SNY and the lawyers from Verily. Getting a deal done by Labor Day would be around the right time if they started in January. Then you have Dexcom and no mention in the Onduo deal after paying Verily $100M to make the new miniaturized non-invasive CGM devices which Onduo will need. Josh Riff says he wants to address the mealtime BG issue and "remove the friction" for diabetics by reducing injections. I suspect a few more shoes will drop with Ondou. If Dexcom is not part of this I would expect Kevin Sayer has already talked to his lawyers. For Josh Riff, its not clear to me how he does what he wants without afrezza. If what DeSisto disclosed to Insulet was the Onduo concept and he was reading MNKD for sale to Ondou I could see Insulet being concerned. You are as bad as fudsters if not worse misleading people. I didnt want to bother responding but felt the need this morning so people know. Through out 2015 SNY told me numerous times afrezza was in a controlled launch and they were using it as a learning experience for the real launch in 2016.
So you are an SNY insider? Thats what this board convinced themselves to support their thesis. Do you have a hotline to Oliver? What was MNKD doing to compete with Insulet?
If you are asking this - you proved you have no clue. Most afrezza users ditch pump and afrezza is a direct threat. read their 10k - they must state that..its common sense. and all the other stuff post - damn.. My only advice to posters reading this - please use your common sense. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Sept 17, 2016 8:26:32 GMT -5
Iam2 - remember, the mission of SNY was to address T2s not T1s with afrezza. Thats not the Insulet market. In fact many saw the use of afrezza as just another tool for corrections using the pump. Few saw it as a direct competition to the pump even though Al said it would and a year ago Tresiba was not really making an impact yet. And yes, I do just pick up the phone and call people. I saw Dr Boss went to SNY in NJ and found out they were heading up the product team. There is nothing wrong asking them why are you people doing, afrezza is not selling! I think he may still be there, not sure but if he is whats he doing? And what is Hakan doing who was being assigned to "transition"? Transition of what? Now the mission of Onduo is T2s, that the 40% who should be on insulin. There is no better option for them but afrezza if they know how to dose. If they are going to take a 4u dose when the need 12u or s follow-up they just are not going to get the results they need. If Onduo can do what they say, they solve this problem. The same with Vdex. If Vdex is in the Urgent Cares I see them as a potential feeder to Sutter and other Endo's and seeing them using the Unduo monitoring system.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 11:36:35 GMT -5
Iam2 - remember, the mission of SNY was to address T2s not T1s with afrezza. Thats not the Insulet market. In fact many saw the use of afrezza as just another tool for corrections using the pump. Few saw it as a direct competition to the pump even though Al said it would and a year ago Tresiba was not really making an impact yet. And yes, I do just pick up the phone and call people. I saw Dr Boss went to SNY in NJ and found out they were heading up the product team. There is nothing wrong asking them why are you people doing, afrezza is not selling! I think he may still be there, not sure but if he is whats he doing? And what is Hakan doing who was being assigned to "transition"? Transition of what? Now the mission of Onduo is T2s, that the 40% who should be on insulin. There is no better option for them but afrezza if they know how to dose. If they are going to take a 4u dose when the need 12u or s follow-up they just are not going to get the results they need. If Onduo can do what they say, they solve this problem. The same with Vdex. If Vdex is in the Urgent Cares I see them as a potential feeder to Sutter and other Endo's and seeing them using the Unduo monitoring system.
You continue to prove yourself. And what is Hakan doing who was being assigned to "transition"? Transition of what?
There is nothing to transition. Al just took care of his boys and colored the expenditure that way to the investors. Hakan updated his linked in profile as "Retired". You can stick to your feel good theories. Good luck.
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Post by audiomr on Sept 17, 2016 22:46:06 GMT -5
It was a bizarre situation and not a fun feeling when they withdrew. I'm not even remotely close to a legal expert but I found it odd it took some 19 days to initiate the non-compete clause, is that a normal time frame? And also lets say DeSisto backed out from SNY termination and MNKD wanted to save face, did either DD or MNKD go to Insulet and say hey guys can you please trigger this non-compete clause for us? I don't know why I even care about it anymore but it's still kind of bizarre. Through out 2015 SNY told me numerous times afrezza was in a controlled launch and they were using it as a learning experience for the real launch in 2016. In December they have the review meeting in San Diego and the rumor is they are blown away with the results. Soon after we have the Desisto announcement he is the new CEO and then a few days later no deal because of his non-compete. What was MNKD doing to compete with Insulet? A deal like Onduo does not happen over night. Normally a 2016 deal would have been budgeted by year end 2015. Then you have the lawyers from SNY and the lawyers from Verily. Getting a deal done by Labor Day would be around the right time if they started in January. Then you have Dexcom and no mention in the Onduo deal after paying Verily $100M to make the new miniaturized non-invasive CGM devices which Onduo will need. Josh Riff says he wants to address the mealtime BG issue and "remove the friction" for diabetics by reducing injections. I suspect a few more shoes will drop with Ondou. If Dexcom is not part of this I would expect Kevin Sayer has already talked to his lawyers. For Josh Riff, its not clear to me how he does what he wants without afrezza. If what DeSisto disclosed to Insulet was the Onduo concept and he was reading MNKD for sale to Ondou I could see Insulet being concerned. SNY told you numerous times? What's your connection? |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Sept 19, 2016 15:27:53 GMT -5
Surplus - I sure hope you are wrong about being "afraid they will do what they are trying to do and continue to be dismissive of Afrezza." I could be wrong but I hope they are taking the advice and guidance of guys like Steve Edelman who know the value of afrezza. IMO, the key for afrezza to break-through current market barriers is the technology revolution - the 24/7 monitoring and dosing guidance I am hoping Ondou and Watson/Nova will bring. Right now Onduo may be in a better position to bring to market a near non-invasive way to monitor and they are probably close to Watson with the dosing algorithms. I am hearing Onduo is putting performance deals together with the insurance companies. If so, afrezza will need to be front and center in their tool box so they can exceed their A1c goals for the bonus payments. What are you referring to with the statement above about non-invasive monitoring? Onduo has specifically stated they are not taking on further development of the BG measuring contact lenses Verily has worked on. Is there another technology they have in the works? |
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Post by peppy on Sept 19, 2016 16:10:31 GMT -5
Through out 2015 SNY told me numerous times afrezza was in a controlled launch and they were using it as a learning experience for the real launch in 2016. In December they have the review meeting in San Diego and the rumor is they are blown away with the results. Soon after we have the Desisto announcement he is the new CEO and then a few days later no deal because of his non-compete. What was MNKD doing to compete with Insulet? A deal like Onduo does not happen over night. Normally a 2016 deal would have been budgeted by year end 2015. Then you have the lawyers from SNY and the lawyers from Verily. Getting a deal done by Labor Day would be around the right time if they started in January. Then you have Dexcom and no mention in the Onduo deal after paying Verily $100M to make the new miniaturized non-invasive CGM devices which Onduo will need. Josh Riff says he wants to address the mealtime BG issue and "remove the friction" for diabetics by reducing injections. I suspect a few more shoes will drop with Ondou. If Dexcom is not part of this I would expect Kevin Sayer has already talked to his lawyers. For Josh Riff, its not clear to me how he does what he wants without afrezza. If what DeSisto disclosed to Insulet was the Onduo concept and he was reading MNKD for sale to Ondou I could see Insulet being concerned. The whole collaboration here (including the Novo/Watson one) is an approach that is very familiar; a reliance on a technology fix. L ooking at users reports clearly, Afrezza achieves as a prandial and beyond (as close to a "cure" by a return to normalization as reported by some) exactly what Riff is after but Sanofi and Novo dont have insulin products to match it. So instead they are going to try to shore up the deficiencies of their insulins by a reliance on monitoring technology instead. So by comparison they will not achieve what Afrezza can, but what may be important to them is that it creates an entire new space for profits and entrenching the same old insulins. Its a win win for both sides (the technology companies and big pharma) but not for the patients; it keeps them dependent and ill. It leads the patients to believe that the best they can hope for is a reduced number of injections instead of an actual improvement in their health; it reduces a potential improved quality of life to a quantitative measure. Neanderthal thinking wrapped in shiny new technology. I'm afraid they will do what they are trying to do and continue to be dismissive of Afrezza. They will reduce injections by more careful monitoring. This is for big pharma much cheaper than to try to continue to compete with each other by trying to develop better insulins and get them approved. Afrezza is a disruptive technology that threatens big pharma and Veilbacher was right about big pharma being burdened by a lumbering conservatism which is more interested in maintaining a growing corporate infrastructure than solving health problems. But you are right,the mind boggles at what could be achieved by pairing Afrezza with that very same technology. But another possible view is that if what we may be seeing about Afrezza, at least preliminarily from some users who are experiencing "normalization", it may mean that the need for continuous reliance monitoring technology may be less and the technology could be relegated, as Afrezza improves the condition of its users, to more of an adjunct role. And if the process of Afrezza use contributes to "normalization" among many as opposed to a few, then it would also reduce the number of basal injections (as already reported by some) as well. Illness is a cash cow. Afrezza is potentially very very disruptive. Quote: it keeps them dependent and ill. reply: That seems to be the name of the game. Interesting gig. We are here to help, but not help too much. |
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Post by agedhippie on Sept 19, 2016 17:03:21 GMT -5
...Its a win win for both sides (the technology companies and big pharma) but not for the patients; it keeps them dependent and ill.... Quote: it keeps them dependent and ill. reply: That seems to be the name of the game. Interesting gig. We are here to help, but not help too much. And this is exactly why Type 1s hate all pharmas. We want a cure, not a treatment. It's also why I give money to DRI rather than JDRF - I want a cure not a treatment and the money they spend on treatment is money not spent on a cure. Sorry, that's a sore nerve! |
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Post by agedsagerage on Sept 20, 2016 0:44:30 GMT -5
I've resigned myself to this being a total loss. I barely check the stock any more; only once every two weeks or so to finally see that sub .01 a share.
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