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Post by agedhippie on Aug 10, 2017 21:28:11 GMT -5
In general, if there is probability they will be used then they are a liability. For consumer goods, it can be estimated what percentage ever get used and only accrue liability for a reasonable portion, which would I imagine be tiny for a $0.25 off coffee filter coupon... and they may be short enough that they are all expired on the day they need to do books. The problem with MNKD is that with little track record and a coupon worth hundreds, most accountants I'm pretty sure would say to carry all of them as liability. If they didn't accrue I think accountants would want some documented rationale for why MNKD felt many/most/all wouldn't ever get used. I did a quick google to point you to one reference. I haven't actually read it so can't vouch for whether this is a good explanation of the accounting treatment, but it certainly seems to be addressing the point I was making. I'm sure a vast majority of small businesses ignore this issue in accounting... its not as if anyone will question the mom and pop ice cream shop for giving out free scoop flyers... but MNKD is a publicly traded company and the vouchers could be worth real money. I dealt with some accounting issues like this in business but am no expert... so take with grain of salt and consult your local CPA. www.money-zine.com/definitions/investing-dictionary/premiums-and-coupons/I didn't ask you for a made up example about a fictitious company. I asked you about Mannkind. Mannkind sales model doesn't work like that made up company. Here's where you can find all of Mannkind's SEC filings: investors.mannkindcorp.com/sec.cfm?DocType=&DocTypeExclude=&SortOrder=FilingDate%20Descending&Year=&Pagenum=1&FormatFilter=&CIK=I sincerely hope we haven't reached the point where the coupon costs are a line item in the filed accounts! You are not going to see the coupon cost because it is a discount and those usually are rolled up into cost of sales. Mannkind will have budgeted for a certain discount cost per sale based on the predicted uptake of coupons. If they start issuing huge numbers of coupons then provision for that liability is going to have to be seriously increased or there is going to be a big hole in the accounts. A spectacular example of coupons going wrong wiped out the UK division of Hoover in the 1990s. |
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Post by peppy on Aug 10, 2017 21:34:52 GMT -5
The endo's are not stupid. They know these people need off these pills and need insulin.
They know these pills kill people. Their patients do not get better.
And the endo that prescribes Invokana. This is crazy thinking. This person sold their soul. The goal is not health; it is HbA1c.
12 CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY
12.1 Mechanism of Action
Sodium-glucose co-transporter 2 (SGLT2), expressed in the proximal renal tubules, is responsible for the majority of the reabsorption of filtered glucose from the tubular lumen. Canagliflozin is an inhibitor of SGLT2. By inhibiting SGLT2, canagliflozin reduces reabsorption of filtered glucose and lowers the renal threshold for glucose (RTG), and thereby increases urinary glucose excretion (UGE).
side note: mcdougall said 50% of medicare patients on metformin.
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Post by agedhippie on Aug 10, 2017 21:44:42 GMT -5
They endo's are not stupid. They know these people need off these pills and need insulin. They know these pills kill people. Their patients do not get better. And the endo that prescribes Invokana. This is crazy thinking. This person sold their soul. The goal is not health; it is HbA1c. 12 CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY 12.1 Mechanism of Action Sodium-glucose co-transporter 2 (SGLT2), expressed in the proximal renal tubules, is responsible for the majority of the reabsorption of filtered glucose from the tubular lumen. Canagliflozin is an inhibitor of SGLT2. By inhibiting SGLT2, canagliflozin reduces reabsorption of filtered glucose and lowers the renal threshold for glucose (RTG), and thereby increases urinary glucose excretion (UGE). I see the direction developing more strongly towards combinations of non-insulin treatments. It would be interesting to see the unit sales curves but I would lay money that non-insulin sales are growing faster than insulin sales. A good example of this approach is Dr. Ralph DeFronzo who Sayhey is keen on quoting, he believes that the problem is not people taking a drug but rather that they should be taking cocktails of drugs to optimized for them for the best effect. |
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Post by peppy on Aug 10, 2017 21:50:44 GMT -5
They endo's are not stupid. They know these people need off these pills and need insulin. They know these pills kill people. Their patients do not get better. And the endo that prescribes Invokana. This is crazy thinking. This person sold their soul. The goal is not health; it is HbA1c. 12 CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY 12.1 Mechanism of Action Sodium-glucose co-transporter 2 (SGLT2), expressed in the proximal renal tubules, is responsible for the majority of the reabsorption of filtered glucose from the tubular lumen. Canagliflozin is an inhibitor of SGLT2. By inhibiting SGLT2, canagliflozin reduces reabsorption of filtered glucose and lowers the renal threshold for glucose (RTG), and thereby increases urinary glucose excretion (UGE). I see the direction developing more strongly towards combinations of non-insulin treatments. It would be interesting to see the unit sales curves but I would lay money that non-insulin sales are growing faster than insulin sales. A good example of this approach is Dr. Ralph DeFronzo who Sayhey is keen on quoting, he believes that the problem is not people taking a drug but rather that they should be taking cocktails of drugs to optimized for them for the best effect. What do you think aged? I would like to know. What regime would you prescribe for yourself? You know a lot about diabetes, medication, and yourself.
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Post by agedhippie on Aug 10, 2017 22:02:43 GMT -5
I see the direction developing more strongly towards combinations of non-insulin treatments. It would be interesting to see the unit sales curves but I would lay money that non-insulin sales are growing faster than insulin sales. A good example of this approach is Dr. Ralph DeFronzo who Sayhey is keen on quoting, he believes that the problem is not people taking a drug but rather that they should be taking cocktails of drugs to optimized for them for the best effect. What do you think aged? I would like to know. What regime would you prescribe for yourself? You know a lot about diabetes, medication, and yourself.
Oh, I would go for insulin. I have always said the only non-insulin drug I am comfortable with is Metformin. At the point I could not control my levels with Metformin I would go to basal, and then to MDI. I would probably stay on Metformin. That's what I would do if I was Type 2. I have taken Metformin in the past as a Type 1. My endo was one of the first to use it for Type 1 - until a couple of years ago it was generally thought you should not take it if you were Type 1. It can help somewhat with dawn phenomena, and lower your daily insulin dose. |
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Post by thall on Aug 10, 2017 22:21:55 GMT -5
I sincerely hope we haven't reached the point where the coupon costs are a line item in the filed accounts! You are not going to see the coupon cost because it is a discount and those usually are rolled up into cost of sales. Mannkind will have budgeted for a certain discount cost per sale based on the predicted uptake of coupons. If they start issuing huge numbers of coupons then provision for that liability is going to have to be seriously increased or there is going to be a big hole in the accounts. A spectacular example of coupons going wrong wiped out the UK division of Hoover in the 1990s. I would have thought vouchers would show up under "gross to net adjustments" as "patient discount and co-pay assistance programs." |
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Post by scoy on Aug 10, 2017 23:02:08 GMT -5
I sincerely hope we haven't reached the point where the coupon costs are a line item in the filed accounts! You are not going to see the coupon cost because it is a discount and those usually are rolled up into cost of sales. Mannkind will have budgeted for a certain discount cost per sale based on the predicted uptake of coupons. If they start issuing huge numbers of coupons then provision for that liability is going to have to be seriously increased or there is going to be a big hole in the accounts. A spectacular example of coupons going wrong wiped out the UK division of Hoover in the 1990s. I would have thought vouchers would show up under "gross to net adjustments" as "patient discount and co-pay assistance programs." Exactly right. They're not a negative that's accruing on the balance as a liability when they're not used. It's another cost of doing business. |
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Post by thall on Aug 11, 2017 5:48:17 GMT -5
I would have thought vouchers would show up under "gross to net adjustments" as "patient discount and co-pay assistance programs." Exactly right. They're not a negative that's accruing on the balance as a liability when they're not used. It's another cost of doing business. I imagine the issued but not used vouchers might have to be accounted for as a liability either until they expired or were used. |
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