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Post by agedhippie on Sept 11, 2017 11:59:09 GMT -5
You do realize that the factory is security for the Deerfield loans so it cannot be sold until Deerfield is paid off don't you? In other words we have already spent the money. You do realize that Deerfield continues to work with restructuring covenants and terms and collateral can be financed to help restructure one's finances if the creditor is willing? They have shown/demonstrated they are willing to work with the company. So if Mike is pointing in that direction my bet would be he has already had discussions regarding same, especially if it improves the financial condition of the company improving the s/p of which Deerfield does hold a position. Certainly do! And that is where we differ. You think Deerfield is in this for the long haul as a white knight, and I think they are in this to protect their existing debts and recover what they can. History suggests they are predatory (mango and sayhey24 can provide references) and supports my view. Maybe the leopard has changed it's spots but my betting is not. I certainly expect Mike to have been talking to Deerfield since they are a major creditor with a lot of leverage and need to be kept sweet.
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Post by lakon on Sept 11, 2017 12:02:55 GMT -5
You do realize that the factory is security for the Deerfield loans so it cannot be sold until Deerfield is paid off don't you? In other words we have already spent the money. Deerfield can lift their lien anytime they want. Their best chance of having their debt paid in full is for the company to survive and thrive. If there is enough value here to complete a sale leaseback I'd expect some of the proceeds to paydown Deerfield debt as part of the transaction. A liquidation of the company in bk isnt going to make them whole. I can see them continuing their pattern of rolling some debt and taking some payments. Don't forget that Deerfield is taking some payments by swapping debt for equity... As share price appreciates, Deerfield is likely to want more equity. Since they can control the outcome, it could be a good deal to watch for...buy as they buy to ride it up...
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Sept 11, 2017 12:11:35 GMT -5
You do realize that the factory is security for the Deerfield loans so it cannot be sold until Deerfield is paid off don't you? In other words we have already spent the money. I know Al personally put a billion of his own money into developing and bringing to market Afrezza...his IQ 176...and passion to help humankind and the hundreds of millions of diabetics...is moving forward in Mike's hands now...going into commercialisation with largest sales ever possible on Friday..even with a hurricane..a holiday...and yet.. exceeding expectations...stock potential = up imo long Mnkd! Good job Mike!! I'm usually not accused of being an optimist, but I'll say MNKD isn't living up to my (apparently too high) expectations yet. Good to see progress, but a lot more is needed. I'm at a stage of being a bit more optimistic, but primarily based on giving benefit of the doubt and putting trust in what management is saying they WILL accomplish.
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Post by mango on Sept 11, 2017 12:26:29 GMT -5
I'm pretty damn sure this ends the FUD about MannKind selling their Technosphere IP to make Deerfield happy. Great way to start the week.
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Post by radgray68 on Sept 11, 2017 12:27:30 GMT -5
You do realize that the factory is security for the Deerfield loans so it cannot be sold until Deerfield is paid off don't you? In other words we have already spent the money. So why does Mike keep bringing it up? The last quarterly stated about $4 million a month cash burn for the rest of the year. If I'm not mistaken, we have 4 fill/finish lines available with only about 1 or 2 being used for Afrezza. Is it possible that Mike has a partner who might be willing to pay us around $4 million a month to use the other fill/finish lines for their product? (that is, if those lines could be modified to produce other product) I've never seen this done. But, then fast food joints have cut expenses by sharing storefronts, sooooo....what do you think?
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Post by agedhippie on Sept 11, 2017 13:13:41 GMT -5
I'm pretty damn sure this ends the FUD about MannKind selling their Technosphere IP to make Deerfield happy. Great way to start the week. You can sell TS but still retain a right to use.
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Post by sportsrancho on Sept 11, 2017 13:20:13 GMT -5
So why does Mike keep bringing it up? The last quarterly stated about $4 million a month cash burn for the rest of the year. If I'm not mistaken, we have 4 fill/finish lines available with only about 1 or 2 being used for Afrezza. Is it possible that Mike has a partner who might be willing to pay us around $4 million a month to use the other fill/finish lines for their product? (that is, if those lines could be modified to produce other product) I've never seen this done. But, then fast food joints have cut expenses by sharing storefronts, sooooo....what do you think? It sounds like it. I can't think of anything else he could mean when he said partner:-)
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Post by kc on Sept 11, 2017 13:20:22 GMT -5
Mike refused to answer the question from the crowd about recapitalization, said they had "plenty of ways" - specifically only mentioned that they own their manufacturing plant. $168 million dollar factory owned by Mannkind...market cap..is $123 million...so yep non dilutive..imo I doubt they could get 168 Million for it. I don't see that as a factory other than its currently pledged.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Sept 11, 2017 13:21:27 GMT -5
I'm pretty damn sure this ends the FUD about MannKind selling their Technosphere IP to make Deerfield happy. Great way to start the week. You can sell TS but still retain a right to use. And selling could be better than lots of dilution. Hard to know what is or isn't on the table. I'd hope they are exploring all viable options until such time as the ink is dry on something and money is in the bank. I've made the mistake of not doing that in the past.
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Post by kc on Sept 11, 2017 13:22:01 GMT -5
A couple of points I found interesting. - Said that they put efforts to get more insurers signed up on hold pending the label change, which if successful would allow them to use different strategy and pricing. (Hopefully there would still be time to get on 2018 formularies) - Patents covering Afrezza extend to 2032 and even then it would be very difficult to replicate Afrezza.
I thought he was very specific and clear about that in his call.
- Patents covering Afrezza extend to 2032 and even then it would be very difficult to replicate Afrezza.
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Post by sportsrancho on Sept 11, 2017 13:23:25 GMT -5
I'm pretty damn sure this ends the FUD about MannKind selling their Technosphere IP to make Deerfield happy. Great way to start the week. They were at a investor conference..just saying. Also, off topic, but Nates valuation for the stock is only for Afrezza. TS in his opinion is just icing on the cake, but not factored into his pps targets.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Sept 11, 2017 13:25:56 GMT -5
So why does Mike keep bringing it up? The last quarterly stated about $4 million a month cash burn for the rest of the year. If I'm not mistaken, we have 4 fill/finish lines available with only about 1 or 2 being used for Afrezza. Is it possible that Mike has a partner who might be willing to pay us around $4 million a month to use the other fill/finish lines for their product? (that is, if those lines could be modified to produce other product) I've never seen this done. But, then fast food joints have cut expenses by sharing storefronts, sooooo....what do you think? That would seem unlikely in my opinion. Undoubtedly there would be lengthy FDA approval process for a different product. I don't think another company would go through that process unless they were guaranteed manufacturing capacity for quite some time, so hopefully MNKD isn't giving up capacity for years to come.
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Post by casualinvestor on Sept 11, 2017 13:47:25 GMT -5
You do realize that Deerfield continues to work with restructuring covenants and terms and collateral can be financed to help restructure one's finances if the creditor is willing? They have shown/demonstrated they are willing to work with the company. So if Mike is pointing in that direction my bet would be he has already had discussions regarding same, especially if it improves the financial condition of the company improving the s/p of which Deerfield does hold a position. Certainly do! And that is where we differ. You think Deerfield is in this for the long haul as a white knight, and I think they are in this to protect their existing debts and recover what they can. History suggests they are predatory (mango and sayhey24 can provide references) and supports my view. Maybe the leopard has changed it's spots but my betting is not. I certainly expect Mike to have been talking to Deerfield since they are a major creditor with a lot of leverage and need to be kept sweet. Predatory may or may not be in the cards. We do know that Deerfield kept 1/2 of the ~5mil shares they got on 4/19, at least until 6/30. In a few months we'll find out about the rest of the shares they got in august. But if they held on to the 2.7 million shares that they had on 6/30, they've made a killing on them. And if they still have the shares from August. Ditto. It's not a bad thing for the farmer to feed and shelter the cow he's milking. The cow just has to be aware of what might happen if the milk dries up
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Post by mango on Sept 11, 2017 14:16:22 GMT -5
I'm pretty damn sure this ends the FUD about MannKind selling their Technosphere IP to make Deerfield happy. Great way to start the week. They were at a investor conference..just saying. Also, off topic, but Nates valuation for the stock is only for Afrezza. TS in his opinion is just icing on the cake, but not factored into his pps targets. True. agedhippie I don't doubt they might do what you say but I suspect it would be licensing deals and not out right sells. Manufacturing processes for Technosphere require certain in-house know how, skilled personnel, and specific equipment. It is well known that MannKind had to manufacture Afrezza themselves because Sanofi lacked the ability to do it. Giving away the rights to manufacture Technosphere puts a liability on MannKind because most of the companies already have issues with their CGMPs. The FDA has issued warning letters to many BPs for adulterated products. Do you really think MannKind wants Technosphere to be associated with that crap? It will be highly selective who they allow the rights to.
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Post by nemzter on Sept 11, 2017 14:18:24 GMT -5
A couple of points I found interesting. - Said that they put efforts to get more insurers signed up on hold pending the label change, which if successful would allow them to use different strategy and pricing. (Hopefully there would still be time to get on 2018 formularies) - Patents covering Afrezza extend to 2032 and even then it would be very difficult to replicate Afrezza.
I thought he was very specific and clear about that in his call.
- Patents covering Afrezza extend to 2032 and even then it would be very difficult to replicate Afrezza.
I would say that if we ever do go international, I'm sure the folks in China would require us to manufacture locally which could make the replication process repeatable there. I do hope they just buy us out before then
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