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Post by phantomfj on Sept 25, 2017 13:13:17 GMT -5
I don't know about the rest of you, I just cringe when I see MNKD trading at 3 decimal points, this morning I have even seen it trade at 4 decimal points. To me, that looks like pitch and catch between traders to keep prices down, are there any other explanations I could be missing? The only other stocks I follow that will show that pattern are thinly traded, sub dollar priced stocks, not a stock that trades over a million share per day..........
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Post by dh4mizzou on Sept 25, 2017 13:19:46 GMT -5
Makes sense. You can trade 100x as many shares and not even move the price a penny this way.
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Post by derek2 on Sept 25, 2017 13:27:53 GMT -5
Could be day traders coming in to trade over a catalyst (perceived catalyst or real one).
Gathering mixed asks to fill a larger bid can lead to fractional prices, as the fill is the average of the asks.
Other causes of sub-penny pricing:
1) Subpenny pricing can occur for midpoint execution on most exchanges. 2) Some exchanges allow market makers to quote subpenny orders for interaction with retail flow. 3) Most brokerage flow goes to a retail market making firm / group who, generally, are required to a) immediately take the other side of the trade and b) provide price improvement (on average) over the national best bid or offer (can result in subpenny execution prices) for the retail investor.
In these cases, it results in a smaller bid / ask spread, benefitting small investors.
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Post by derek2 on Sept 25, 2017 13:29:17 GMT -5
Makes sense. You can trade 100x as many shares and not even move the price a penny this way. Only if there's enough volume on the ask. Otherwise, the buyers can gobble up the level 2 and the price goes up.
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Post by mnkdfann on Sept 25, 2017 14:33:12 GMT -5
I don't know about the rest of you, I just cringe when I see MNKD trading at 3 decimal points, this morning I have even seen it trade at 4 decimal points. To me, that looks like pitch and catch between traders to keep prices down, are there any other explanations I could be missing? The only other stocks I follow that will show that pattern are thinly traded, sub dollar priced stocks, not a stock that trades over a million share per day.......... According to my screen, Berkshire Hathaway BRK-B is also trading at 4 decimal points. Apple (AAPL) is at 3 decimals right this second. Lots do. I think you just did not notice it before. Or your screen is doing some invisible rounding.
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Post by phantomfj on Sept 25, 2017 14:59:57 GMT -5
I don't know about the rest of you, I just cringe when I see MNKD trading at 3 decimal points, this morning I have even seen it trade at 4 decimal points. To me, that looks like pitch and catch between traders to keep prices down, are there any other explanations I could be missing? The only other stocks I follow that will show that pattern are thinly traded, sub dollar priced stocks, not a stock that trades over a million share per day.......... According to my screen, Berkshire Hathaway BRK-B is also trading at 4 decimal points. Apple (AAPL) is at 3 decimals right this second. Lots do. I think you just did not notice it before. Or your screen is doing some invisible rounding. This is not on any of my trading accounts' watchlists, I use Yahoo Finance watchlist for a general feel, I can modify my views easily with it and adjust/see parameters and notes quickly. As I speak now, of the approximately 100+ stocks being followed, there are only 3 showing 3 decimal place trading, and those are all priced sub $1.....I looked up both AAPL and BRK-B using this watchlist, both are only showing 2 decimal places
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Post by mnkdfann on Sept 25, 2017 15:11:00 GMT -5
According to my screen, Berkshire Hathaway BRK-B is also trading at 4 decimal points. Apple (AAPL) is at 3 decimals right this second. Lots do. I think you just did not notice it before. Or your screen is doing some invisible rounding. This is not on any of my trading accounts' watchlists, I use Yahoo Finance watchlist for a general feel, I can modify my views easily with it and adjust/see parameters and notes quickly. As I speak now, of the approximately 100+ stocks being followed, there are only 3 showing 3 decimal place trading, and those are all priced sub $1.....I looked up both AAPL and BRK-B using this watchlist, both are only showing 2 decimal places What can I tell you? I see multiple decimals in my view. Even on Yahoo Finance, for AAPL and BRK-B. Clearly your set-up differs from mine, but I don't know how.
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Post by phantomfj on Sept 25, 2017 15:22:36 GMT -5
This is not on any of my trading accounts' watchlists, I use Yahoo Finance watchlist for a general feel, I can modify my views easily with it and adjust/see parameters and notes quickly. As I speak now, of the approximately 100+ stocks being followed, there are only 3 showing 3 decimal place trading, and those are all priced sub $1.....I looked up both AAPL and BRK-B using this watchlist, both are only showing 2 decimal places What can I tell you? I see multiple decimals in my view. Even on Yahoo Finance, for AAPL and BRK-B. Clearly your set-up differs from mine, but I don't know how. Hmm, thats where it gets even stranger, I am on the Canadian site (.ca), and the only stocks that were showing 3 decimal points were canadian listed ones, except MNKD! None of my other US stock quotes showed other than 2 decimal points, of course all of the US stocks I follow are much bigger companies than MNKD.....
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Post by agedhippie on Sept 25, 2017 15:25:23 GMT -5
Don't confuse tick data with aggregated data. Unless you are using a professional terminal AND paying for tick data what you see is an price average over a time interval. The fractions can vary from feed to feed depending on the time interval used which is why you don't usually bother with all the decimal places - they are an artifact of the time interval.
Tick data on terminals is relatively rare these days because the bandwidth needed for a full tick feed is large. I think Reuters switched to aggregated feeds from tick data for terminals over ten years ago now.
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Post by mnkdfann on Sept 25, 2017 15:28:19 GMT -5
What can I tell you? I see multiple decimals in my view. Even on Yahoo Finance, for AAPL and BRK-B. Clearly your set-up differs from mine, but I don't know how. Hmm, thats where it gets even stranger, I am on the Canadian site (.ca), and the only stocks that were showing 3 decimal points were canadian listed ones, except MNKD! None of my other US stock quotes showed other than 2 decimal points, of course all of the US stocks I follow are much bigger companies than MNKD..... FWIW, I am also on ca.finance.yahoo.ca. I'll add that sometimes the 3 and 4 decimal quotes I see are quickly rounded to 2 decimals only. Not sure if that is due to the market quotes changing, yahoo rounding the data it is sending, or whether my browser is rounding.
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Post by dh4mizzou on Sept 26, 2017 8:13:30 GMT -5
All of these 3 and 4 digit decimals are the result of programmed trading plain and simple. No human could even come close to the speed and accuracy in trading at those miniscule levels.
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Post by derek2 on Sept 26, 2017 8:48:02 GMT -5
well, I just put in a limit order for $1.91 for a small nibble of 200 more shares, and it filled at $1.9092 due to partial lots. Lucky me - I got a better price than my limit!
Thanks, market makers.
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Post by dejude42 on Sept 26, 2017 8:59:34 GMT -5
Stock has been trading at .0001 levels for months. This is the type of trade that stalls and destroys a price rise at very low cost done by nefarious Creativity Manipulators. All stocks need are flags in programs. Who relinquishes and who buy these shares.? Are patterns formed that show abuse? Short shares were designed for insurance to protect investors. An individual can not burn their own house down and collect. Everyone knows, this is an illegal nefarious Creativity Manipulation scheme. The SEC Mission statement and creation: www.investor.gov/introduction-investing/basics/role-sec www.sec.gov/Article/whatwedo.htmlMission The U. S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) has a three-part mission: Protect investors Maintain fair, orderly, and efficient markets Facilitate capital formation Congress Created The SEC When the stock market crashed in October 1929, so did public confidence in the U.S. markets. Congress held hearings to identify the problems and search for solutions. Based on its findings, Congress – in the peak year of the Depression – passed the Securities Act of 1933. The following year, it passed the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, which created the SEC. The main purposes of these laws can be reduced to two common-sense notions: Companies offering securities for sale to the public must tell the truth about their business, the securities they are selling, and the risks involved in investing in those securities. Those who sell and trade securities – brokers, dealers, and exchanges – must treat investors fairly and honestly.
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Post by derek2 on Sept 26, 2017 9:05:56 GMT -5
Stock has been trading at .0001 levels for months. This is the type of trade that stalls and destroys a price rise at very low cost done by nefarious Creativity Manipulators. All stocks need are flags in programs. Who relinquishes and who buy these shares.? Are patterns formed that show abuse? Short shares were designed for insurance to protect investors. An individual can not burn their own house down and collect. Everyone knows, this is an illegal nefarious Creativity Manipulation scheme. The SEC Mission statement and creation: www.investor.gov/introduction-investing/basics/role-sec www.sec.gov/Article/whatwedo.htmlMission The U. S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) has a three-part mission: Protect investors Maintain fair, orderly, and efficient markets Facilitate capital formation Congress Created The SEC When the stock market crashed in October 1929, so did public confidence in the U.S. markets. Congress held hearings to identify the problems and search for solutions. Based on its findings, Congress – in the peak year of the Depression – passed the Securities Act of 1933. The following year, it passed the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, which created the SEC. The main purposes of these laws can be reduced to two common-sense notions: Companies offering securities for sale to the public must tell the truth about their business, the securities they are selling, and the risks involved in investing in those securities. Those who sell and trade securities – brokers, dealers, and exchanges – must treat investors fairly and honestly. How does it destroy a price rise? Park 1M shares at an ask of $1.91. it puts up a wall. After that's sold, or somebody puts in a lower ask, you're subject to the Level 2 order flow. Park 100K shares each at $1.91, $1.909, $1.908, $1.907, $1.906, $1.905, $1.904, $1.903, $1.902, $1.901. After that 1M in shares is gobbled up you're still subject to the Level 2 order flow. The fractional pennies make no difference in anybody's ability to manipulate a price. If there's demand, they'll get bought. If not, they won't and it makes no difference if the price is in rounded pennies or fractions of pennies.
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Post by traderdennis on Sept 26, 2017 9:22:26 GMT -5
All of these 3 and 4 digit decimals are the result of programmed trading plain and simple. No human could even come close to the speed and accuracy in trading at those miniscule levels. Not true at all. Furna a like fidelity and some market makers pass on liquidy rebates to the trader. A lot of the three digit prices at the half cent are midpoint trades.
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