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Post by mytakeonit on Jan 24, 2019 13:23:39 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, the production lines (2 or 3) were brought in from Europe and are state of the art. Only the best for Al Mann ... and the human race. The people trained to run it was also the best ... too bad things didn't pan out as expected and most had to be let go.
So, let's get this baby cranking !!! Gentlemen and Ladies ... START YOUR ENGINES !!!
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jan 24, 2019 13:30:25 GMT -5
Why would it be more expensive? Remember the Insulin monomers do not have to be zinc bonded to stabilize them as they do with all the other older more expensive insulins...as Afrezza being Monomer self assembles onto a known inert nano particle..without the zinc bonding cost..and the insulin lost in that old process is pretty significant..it has always been more efficient to make a dry powder than the liquid..which I see now isn't obvoius but true.. You are way over-thinking this. Insulin is produced from genetically modified E-Coli and the cost is is cleaning up the output which is the same whether you are talking about human insulin or RAA. Mannkind buy their insulin from AMPH and that cost is buried in the price. At this point RAA is ready for packaging, however Mannkind now need to do the drying and assembly process before they can package the insulin. Mannkind have the cost of that extra step as well as the API insulin manufacturer's profit margin. Then there is the scale and the maturity of the RAA process... There is no way Afrezza can get it's costs as low as RAA, but it can get close at volume. That is inaccurate and not reflective of the actual process.
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jan 24, 2019 13:37:23 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, the production lines (2 or 3) were brought in from Europe and are state of the art. Only the best for Al Mann ... and the human race. The people trained to run it was also the best ... too bad things didn't pan out as expected and most had to be let go. So, let's get this baby cranking !!! Gentlemen and Ladies ... START YOUR ENGINES !!! To be clear Mannkinds Facility and process is way more efficent than any...other insulin maker..for example the inhaler..won the global award..above Mercks inhaler amonst others..is also blutooth capable..more than 30% efficent than the previous inhaler..elimimates so much insulin waste allows Mannkind to give two away free with 90 day orders..but..there is more savings in making a dry powder verses an aerosol..or verses an injection..
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Post by mannmade on Jan 24, 2019 13:45:23 GMT -5
Also a much simpler mechanism and therefore much less can go wrong for consumer. No moving parts, nothing to break.
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bac
Lab Rat
Posts: 37
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Post by bac on Jan 24, 2019 13:49:42 GMT -5
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Post by mannmade on Jan 24, 2019 13:54:31 GMT -5
Yes but is the maker of afrezza which is insulin product.
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 24, 2019 15:20:13 GMT -5
You are way over-thinking this. Insulin is produced from genetically modified E-Coli and the cost is is cleaning up the output which is the same whether you are talking about human insulin or RAA. Mannkind buy their insulin from AMPH and that cost is buried in the price. At this point RAA is ready for packaging, however Mannkind now need to do the drying and assembly process before they can package the insulin. Mannkind have the cost of that extra step as well as the API insulin manufacturer's profit margin. Then there is the scale and the maturity of the RAA process... There is no way Afrezza can get it's costs as low as RAA, but it can get close at volume. That is inaccurate and not reflective of the actual process. Which bit is inaccurate? That Mannkind buys insulin rather than makes it and so has to bear the manufacturers margin, that Afrezza requires extra manufacturing steps, that the competition produce insulin at a hugely larger scale and so can spread their costs much thinner per dose?
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jan 24, 2019 15:23:06 GMT -5
Raw insulin os privided by Amphistar...then self assembled as a stable active monomeric human insulin on a known inert nano particle Technosphere..two parts...one A singular monomer..and a technosphere..no..having to chemically zinc bond into inactive hexomerics to stabilize wasting insulin..in the production methods...while Mannkind captures almost all at nano molecule via electrostatic charge that self aligns the orderly loading of more insulin and active..faster..in..faster out..
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 24, 2019 15:34:36 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, the production lines (2 or 3) were brought in from Europe and are state of the art. Only the best for Al Mann ... and the human race. The people trained to run it was also the best ... too bad things didn't pan out as expected and most had to be let go. So, let's get this baby cranking !!! Gentlemen and Ladies ... START YOUR ENGINES !!! To be clear Mannkinds Facility and process is way more efficent than any...other insulin maker..for example the inhaler..won the global award..above Mercks inhaler amonst others..is also blutooth capable..more than 30% efficent than the previous inhaler..elimimates so much insulin waste allows Mannkind to give two away free with 90 day orders..but..there is more savings in making a dry powder verses an aerosol..or verses an injection.. I am not sure what you are arguing here. The dreamboat is a nice design, no question, but they are not giving it away because of efficiency, they are giving it away because the cost of the inhaler is buried in the price of Afrezza just as the cost of an insulin pen is buried in the cost of a pack of Humalog Kwikpens. And Afrezza give away two Dreamboat inhalers for free with each box of Afrezza - I believe a Dreamboat is good for 14 days. Then you are confusing Dreamboat with Bluhale. Dreamboat is not bluetooth capable, Bluhale is bluetooth capable. They chamber the same cartridge and have the same airflows, but they are most definitely not the same device. You costing of injected vs. inhaled is wrong. You have to produce injectable insulin in order to produce Afrezza. Afrezza in dried and processed Regular insulin. REE does not have the cost of that extra drying and processing step.
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jan 24, 2019 15:41:23 GMT -5
To be clear Mannkinds Facility and process is way more efficent than any...other insulin maker..for example the inhaler..won the global award..above Mercks inhaler amonst others..is also blutooth capable..more than 30% efficent than the previous inhaler..elimimates so much insulin waste allows Mannkind to give two away free with 90 day orders..but..there is more savings in making a dry powder verses an aerosol..or verses an injection.. I am not sure what you are arguing here. The dreamboat is a nice design, no question, but they are not giving it away because of efficiency, they are giving it away because the cost of the inhaler is buried in the price of Afrezza just as the cost of an insulin pen is buried in the cost of a pack of Humalog Kwikpens. And Afrezza give away two Dreamboat inhalers for free with each box of Afrezza - I believe a Dreamboat is good for 14 days. Then you are confusing Dreamboat with Bluhale. Dreamboat is not bluetooth capable, Bluhale is bluetooth capable. They chamber the same cartridge and have the same airflows, but they are most definitely not the same device. You costing of injected vs. inhaled is wrong. You have to produce injectable insulin in order to produce Afrezza. Afrezza in dried and processed Regular insulin. REE does not have the cost of that extra drying and processing step. nope..Pfizer had to produce hexomeric inactive insulin in their process..which was costly..Mannkind doesn't do that step..just Monomeric human insulin..no zinc bonding process..more efficent and also..the reason Mannkind took a CRL once was because of the inhaler switch to the more efficent inhaler that didn't have a remaining 30% of the insulin in the inhaler..it was worth the wait..saved so much..it became free..
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 24, 2019 15:43:15 GMT -5
Raw insulin os privided by Amphistar...then self assembled as a stable active monomeric human insulin on a known inert nano particle Technosphere..two parts...one A singular monomer..and a technosphere..no..having to chemically zinc bond into inactive hexomerics to stabilize wasting insulin..in the production methods...while Mannkind captures almost all at nano molecule via electrostatic charge that self aligns the orderly loading of more insulin and active..faster..in..faster out.. What you call raw insulin is Regular insulin - it's human insulin produced by genetically modified E-Coli, then cleaned of non-insulin components to a purity level where it can be used for people. At that point you could add a preservative, slap a label on it and sell it as Novolin R in your local pharmacy with no further work. If you wanted RAA then you use a different genetically modified E Coli bacteria and follow the same process. You are confused about the hexamer aspect. It doesn't need anything special to make insulin into a hexamer, indeed the whole of RAA technology is about trying to stop that from happening. Afrezza's advantage is that it can stop hexamers from forming prior to delivery.
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jan 24, 2019 15:43:46 GMT -5
I am not sure what you are arguing here. The dreamboat is a nice design, no question, but they are not giving it away because of efficiency, they are giving it away because the cost of the inhaler is buried in the price of Afrezza just as the cost of an insulin pen is buried in the cost of a pack of Humalog Kwikpens. And Afrezza give away two Dreamboat inhalers for free with each box of Afrezza - I believe a Dreamboat is good for 14 days. Then you are confusing Dreamboat with Bluhale. Dreamboat is not bluetooth capable, Bluhale is bluetooth capable. They chamber the same cartridge and have the same airflows, but they are most definitely not the same device. You costing of injected vs. inhaled is wrong. You have to produce injectable insulin in order to produce Afrezza. Afrezza in dried and processed Regular insulin. REE does not have the cost of that extra drying and processing step. nope..Pfizer had to produce hexomeric inactive insulin in their process..which was costly..Mannkind doesn't do that step..just Monomeric human insulin..no zinc bonding process..more efficent and also..the reason Mannkind took a CRL once was because of the inhaler switch to the more efficent inhaler that didn't have a remaining 30% of the insulin in the inhaler..it was worth the wait..saved so much..it became free.. And I would also note Pfizers bong telescope cost was obserd..their insulin offered nothing clinically for the patient because it was the same old inactive hexomeric sixpack that was slow in..and slow out..
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Post by harryx1 on Jan 24, 2019 16:00:02 GMT -5
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Post by goyocafe on Jan 24, 2019 16:11:04 GMT -5
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Post by boca1girl on Jan 24, 2019 16:20:56 GMT -5
I understand that most users will need to take more Afrezza insulin than compared to RAA insulin.
My original comment was on the manufacturing cost only.
Even with higher volumes, from what I read on proboards, Afrezza will cost more to produce than RAA prefilled pens.
Maybe that’s wrong, I don’t know.
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