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Post by sweedee79 on Jun 16, 2019 22:59:17 GMT -5
Holy Crap!!! Really? This whole idea is so we can raise the script count so Mnkd succeeds . AND Vdex succeeds...
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Post by mnkdfann on Jun 16, 2019 23:01:09 GMT -5
Do we have to have four Vdex threads?! Only four IS limiting. Maybe we need a VDEX forum?
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Post by lifebreath on Jun 16, 2019 23:04:16 GMT -5
Uvula are you about half way through a bottle of Single malt tonight? MNKD needs VDEX
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Post by uvula on Jun 16, 2019 23:10:41 GMT -5
I'm a mnkd shareholder. Can't afford single malt.
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Post by uvula on Jun 16, 2019 23:17:27 GMT -5
Vdex wants afrezza to succeed. The quickest way to increase script count could be to have a company with deep pockets assume control of afrezza.
Similarly, afrezza users probably don't care if mnkd exists or not as long as afrezza stays on the market.
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Post by sweedee79 on Jun 16, 2019 23:33:57 GMT -5
A company with deep pockets would be great.. if that happens I'm all for it.. However, large trial data to change label and FDA restrictions would take years. So not so sure how quick that would change things..
Also, if there is such a partner where have they been? If someone wanted Afrezza why couldn't the DF debt have been settled earlier by a company with deep pockets?
I may be wrong but I think that is wishful thinking.. I hope I am wrong..
If Mnkd has such a deal there is still no reason why Mnkd can't respond to Vdex..In the past they have simply ignored them. You would think they would want to keep all options open for the good of the company.
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Post by mnkdfann on Jun 16, 2019 23:48:01 GMT -5
A company with deep pockets would be great.. if that happens I'm all for it.. However, large trial data to change label and FDA restrictions would take years. So not so sure how quick that would change things.. Also, if there is such a partner where have they been? If someone wanted Afrezza why couldn't the DF debt have been settled earlier by a company with deep pockets? I may be wrong but I think that is wishful thinking.. I hope I am wrong.. If Mnkd has such a deal there is still no reason why Mnkd can't respond to Vdex..In the past they have simply ignored them. You would think they would want to keep all options open for the good of the company. I think uvala is not (necessarily) talking about a 'partner' per se. As he said in his first post, it could be a large pharma that gets to "buy afrezza at the fire sale".
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Post by ktim on Jun 16, 2019 23:50:43 GMT -5
What is it you want Dexcom to do, cut off the screen when they detect that someone has used a competing prandial insulin? In reality Dexcom would probably suffer if Afrezza is as good as most are hoping for. Patients are far more likely to want to endure the inconvenience of having a device inserted through their skin if it is actually alerting them to life threatening situations such as hypoglycemia. Treatments that make achieving predictable stable BG easier would seem to lower patient desire/need to have CGMs. The most loyal Dexcom customer is likely the one who feels they are constantly being saved by the out of bound alerts.Am I missing something? Not missing, just a bad assumption on the bold part. Afrezza without a CGM is almost pointless in my opinion. It's a reactive drug, not a proactive drug for someone with T1. It's "do I need to dose now based on the last 15 minutes or not "not I ate x carbs and took y insulin and must now wait for this to ride out". I don't really buy that argument of Afrezza basically requiring a CGM, but to the extent you are correct, that certainly is on the con side of the ledger rather than pro since it would drastically increase the cost of properly using Afrezza on top of already having higher prices than RAAs. It would be nice if all payers felt all PWD should have CGMs available, but they don't because of the cost.
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Post by sweedee79 on Jun 16, 2019 23:56:21 GMT -5
mnkdfann.. yeah I guess you are right about that . I'm getting tired.. goodnight..
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Post by od on Jun 17, 2019 8:45:50 GMT -5
Now that the Vdex proposal to MNKD has completely captured the board's (Proboard, not BOD) attention, is it time for full disclosure? I would imagine that some posting members have business interest in Vdex other than how it will benefit MNKD. Fair? How so? And what's your point? You think that some on this board support the VDEX position because they have a financial stake in a non-public company? What's your "full disclosure"? Re: my full disclosure...I believe I have transparently disclosed any past or present business that may influence my shared thinking; my full posting history is available for review. How so? Why would you not want to know if a posting member has a financial interest in Vdex? The open kimono suggestion has nothing to do with regulations; public or private makes no matter to me, transparency does.
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Post by awesomo on Jun 17, 2019 9:11:20 GMT -5
We’re green today, the market has spoken, lol...
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Post by sportsrancho on Jun 17, 2019 9:33:58 GMT -5
How so? And what's your point? You think that some on this board support the VDEX position because they have a financial stake in a non-public company? What's your "full disclosure"? Re: my full disclosure...I believe I have transparently disclosed any past or present business that may influence my shared thinking; my full posting history is available for review. How so? Why would you not want to know if a posting member has a financial interest in Vdex? The open kimono suggestion has nothing to do with regulations; public or private makes no matter to me, transparency does. 900 people read this board in the last 24 hours, you can bet some of them want to open up their own Vdex’s...so I’m sure that some people have a financial interest. But I’ll bet like the Vdex guys most of them are heavily invested in MNKD also.
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Post by matt on Jun 17, 2019 10:58:26 GMT -5
Also, if there is such a partner where have they been? If someone wanted Afrezza why couldn't the DF debt have been settled earlier by a company with deep pockets? I may be wrong but I think that is wishful thinking.. I hope I am wrong.. If Mnkd has such a deal there is still no reason why Mnkd can't respond to Vdex..In the past they have simply ignored them. You would think they would want to keep all options open for the good of the company. I suspect there is no such partner for the reasons I have mentioned earlier. Taking on another company's failed product is expensive and risky, and if you are a senior executive in a big pharma you didn't get there by taking on a lot of risk (that is why most promising new drugs are developed outside big pharma and then the developer is acquired). It is just now how these companies behave but they are the only companies with the deep pockets needed to make the necessary investments. Meet Catch-22. I assume that MNKD has responded to Vdex in some form, albeit not in a way Vdex finds acceptable. Under Delaware law companies are required to consider certain types of overtures in the interest of shareholders, but it is not clear that the Vdex offer is substantially specific or has proof of adequate funding to clear the threshold where the board must take a definitive action. The first thing a good lawyer would ask to see is a budget and a funding commitment in excess of the budget for opening centers in 20 states, and a list of the physicians willing to put their license on the line as the clinic owner in each state (Vdex itself cannot "own" the clinic but if there is a willing physician this can be circumvented fairly easily). Vdex is offering to trade a promise for a promise which can be the basis of a valid contract. However, if the promise is not backed up by the necessary resources it is an illusory promise and that is not a legal form of consideration. I suspect MNKD's version of Jerry McGuire has asked to "show me the money" and that is where it stands.
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Post by shawnonafrezza on Jun 17, 2019 11:15:15 GMT -5
Not missing, just a bad assumption on the bold part. Afrezza without a CGM is almost pointless in my opinion. It's a reactive drug, not a proactive drug for someone with T1. It's "do I need to dose now based on the last 15 minutes or not "not I ate x carbs and took y insulin and must now wait for this to ride out". I don't really buy that argument of Afrezza basically requiring a CGM, but to the extent you are correct, that certainly is on the con side of the ledger rather than pro since it would drastically increase the cost of properly using Afrezza on top of already having higher prices than RAAs. It would be nice if all payers felt all PWD should have CGMs available, but they don't because of the cost. Requiring? No. Driving better patient outcomes? Totally. If I were a betting man (hell, I'd take this bet even if I wasn't) I'd say most of VDEX success with their patients is CGM driven. If you were to ask most patients with pumps, fancy insulins, newer tech, and cgms which they would be least likely to give up and what helped the most almost all will say the CGM. I'd probably go back on R and Lantus before giving up my CGM.
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Post by sellhighdrinklow on Jun 17, 2019 14:07:14 GMT -5
Also, if there is such a partner where have they been? If someone wanted Afrezza why couldn't the DF debt have been settled earlier by a company with deep pockets? I may be wrong but I think that is wishful thinking.. I hope I am wrong.. If Mnkd has such a deal there is still no reason why Mnkd can't respond to Vdex..In the past they have simply ignored them. You would think they would want to keep all options open for the good of the company. I suspect there is no such partner for the reasons I have mentioned earlier. Taking on another company's failed product is expensive and risky, and if you are a senior executive in a big pharma you didn't get there by taking on a lot of risk (that is why most promising new drugs are developed outside big pharma and then the developer is acquired). It is just now how these companies behave but they are the only companies with the deep pockets needed to make the necessary investments. Meet Catch-22. I assume that MNKD has responded to Vdex in some form, albeit not in a way Vdex finds acceptable. Under Delaware law companies are required to consider certain types of overtures in the interest of shareholders, but it is not clear that the Vdex offer is substantially specific or has proof of adequate funding to clear the threshold where the board must take a definitive action. The first thing a good lawyer would ask to see is a budget and a funding commitment in excess of the budget for opening centers in 20 states, and a list of the physicians willing to put their license on the line as the clinic owner in each state (Vdex itself cannot "own" the clinic but if there is a willing physician this can be circumvented fairly easily). Vdex is offering to trade a promise for a promise which can be the basis of a valid contract. However, if the promise is not backed up by the necessary resources it is an illusory promise and that is not a legal form of consideration. I suspect MNKD's version of Jerry McGuire has asked to "show me the money" and that is where it stands. "Taking on another company's failed product is expensive and risky,..." Failed product? Hardly ! I am assuming you are paid well to be here making your commentary. Have a nice day Read more: mnkd.proboards.com/thread/11300/vdex-mnkd-partnership?page=4#ixzz5r8MR8kl7
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