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Post by sayhey24 on Aug 5, 2019 17:26:36 GMT -5
If the device can detect the insulin dose, I would think the device could detect the cartridge size. 4U 8U 12U and all. The original device did not detect cartridge size. If there is a way of doing that without redesigning the dreamboat inhaler then it seems they would have done it before starting to promote BluHale for non-clinical use. It would seem almost pointless without the ability to detect the size. MNKD was adding a fiberoptic sensor to determine the size. I don't know if this is being released with One Drop but its more of a gimmick device for Jeff Dachis. Just watching the post prandial sugar level drop knowing what was eaten, his software should easily be able to tell 4/8/12 after a little "training". What OneDrop needs is a deal with a CGM provider which crushes Dachis' chrome meter gimmick. |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Aug 5, 2019 18:13:47 GMT -5
ktim... that was my guess too; an acoustic signature associated with powder or absence of powder in air flow. The BluHale can already estimate pressure and flow rates and therefore account for skew in duration of sound associated with powder delivery. Speculating nonetheless. An explanation of what was meant by information on “insulin dose” would make for a good question at the next Annual Shareholder’s Meeting if it isn’t asked/learned before then.
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Post by goyocafe on Aug 5, 2019 18:17:53 GMT -5
They should integrate dosing recommendations based on food imaging databases and create alerts when to dose and follow up dose based on fat/protein/and carbohydrate proportions in photos taken of your meal. Then chart CGM data back to the app to build an AI based, personalized profile for proper Afrezza dosing. www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/foodvisor-calorie-counting-app/ |
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Post by sayhey24 on Aug 5, 2019 18:39:21 GMT -5
ktim... that was my guess too; an acoustic signature associated with powder or absence of powder in air flow. The BluHale can already estimate pressure and flow rates and therefore account for skew in duration of sound associated with powder delivery. Speculating nonetheless. An explanation of what was meant by information on “insulin dose” would make for a good question at the next Annual Shareholder’s Meeting if it isn’t asked/learned before then. The bluhale was developed to model air flow and particle movement. The problem is if you don't know how much powder is in the cartridge to start you can't model how much total powder gets inhaled. A simple input screen on the OneDrop app would fix it but why do something as simple as that when you can engineer a new sensor! |
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Post by sayhey24 on Aug 5, 2019 19:10:59 GMT -5
They should integrate dosing recommendations based on food imaging databases and create alerts when to dose and follow up dose based on fat/protein/and carbohydrate proportions in photos taken of your meal. Then chart CGM data back to the app to build an AI based, personalized profile for proper Afrezza dosing. www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/foodvisor-calorie-counting-app/I thought One Drop already tracks carbs/fat by food picture? What they don't have is a CGM partnership. Maybe Mike has the phone # for the Abbott guy. I know he has Kevin Sayers but I will be surprised if DXCM is not sold soon. |
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Post by ltta on Aug 5, 2019 20:27:18 GMT -5
AND, then you have the PWD on Afrezza who: Would they be on the app? So many variables, how would you program the app and BluHale to handle this??
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Post by ktim on Aug 5, 2019 21:53:44 GMT -5
They should integrate dosing recommendations based on food imaging databases and create alerts when to dose and follow up dose based on fat/protein/and carbohydrate proportions in photos taken of your meal. Then chart CGM data back to the app to build an AI based, personalized profile for proper Afrezza dosing. www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/foodvisor-calorie-counting-app/I thought One Drop already tracks carbs/fat by food picture? What they don't have is a CGM partnership. Maybe Mike has the phone # for the Abbott guy. I know he has Kevin Sayers but I will be surprised if DXCM is not sold soon. They list Dexcom as a partner. Does that not mean the Dexcom data is integrated into the OneDrop app? |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Aug 5, 2019 22:16:43 GMT -5
ktim... that was my guess too; an acoustic signature associated with powder or absence of powder in air flow. The BluHale can already estimate pressure and flow rates and therefore account for skew in duration of sound associated with powder delivery. Speculating nonetheless. An explanation of what was meant by information on “insulin dose” would make for a good question at the next Annual Shareholder’s Meeting if it isn’t asked/learned before then. The bluhale was developed to model air flow and particle movement. The problem is if you don't know how much powder is in the cartridge to start you can't model how much total powder gets inhaled. A simple input screen on the OneDrop app would fix it but why do something as simple as that when you can engineer a new sensor! You may be right. Because the cartridges are 4, 8, and 12U, I assumed 1, 2, and 3x durations of sound of powder moving through the Dreamboat. The signature of sound might show a short duration (less than 1 second) of air without powder, followed by a duration of air mixed with powder, and then a much longer duration of air without powder again assuming most of the inhale is simply air and that the cartridge empties within a second or two. Again, all speculation based on what the Mannkind paper said about how BlueHale uses sound to estimate pressure and rate of flow and assuming air+powder sounds different than air only. But, I don’t really know. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Aug 6, 2019 4:56:14 GMT -5
I thought One Drop already tracks carbs/fat by food picture? What they don't have is a CGM partnership. Maybe Mike has the phone # for the Abbott guy. I know he has Kevin Sayers but I will be surprised if DXCM is not sold soon. They list Dexcom as a partner. Does that not mean the Dexcom data is integrated into the OneDrop app? They do integrate DXCM data but they don't sell their CGM. Their "kit" which includes the chrome meter IMO should include a CGM which they are a reseller for. They also need a walk-in clinic partner similar to what VDex is doing but it needs to be done on a large scale and well funded. Weightwatchers is already integrating calorie apps but they have not yet integrated CGM to track BG and associated spikes. However they are using the perfect name for the Libre - freestyle www.weightwatchers.com/us/I suspect many of their clients are early T2s and may not even know it. If you could get them on a preventive care regimen with afrezza not only would you be able to stop the progression but may see improved beta cell function. |
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Post by agedhippie on Aug 6, 2019 8:34:52 GMT -5
... I suspect many of their clients are early T2s and may not even know it. If you could get them on a preventive care regimen with afrezza not only would you be able to stop the progression but may see improved beta cell function. I think you are right about the pre or early diabetic, but in that case they are probably mostly trying to avoid becoming diabetic by losing weight so they don't have to take drugs. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 9:11:59 GMT -5
ktim... that was my guess too; an acoustic signature associated with powder or absence of powder in air flow. The BluHale can already estimate pressure and flow rates and therefore account for skew in duration of sound associated with powder delivery. Speculating nonetheless. An explanation of what was meant by information on “insulin dose” would make for a good question at the next Annual Shareholder’s Meeting if it isn’t asked/learned before then. I think you meant to say MNKD needs a deal with a CGM Maker not OneDrop. |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Aug 6, 2019 10:36:32 GMT -5
What kind of deal?
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paul
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Post by paul on Aug 6, 2019 10:39:00 GMT -5
The bluhale was developed to model air flow and particle movement. The problem is if you don't know how much powder is in the cartridge to start you can't model how much total powder gets inhaled. A simple input screen on the OneDrop app would fix it but why do something as simple as that when you can engineer a new sensor! You may be right. Because the cartridges are 4, 8, and 12U, I assumed 1, 2, and 3x durations of sound of powder moving through the Dreamboat. The signature of sound might show a short duration (less than 1 second) of air without powder, followed by a duration of air mixed with powder, and then a much longer duration of air without powder again assuming most of the inhale is simply air and that the cartridge empties within a second or two. Again, all speculation based on what the Mannkind paper said about how BlueHale uses sound to estimate pressure and rate of flow and assuming air+powder sounds different than air only. But, I don’t really know. Mannkind says that "BluHale® is a wireless pressure sensing technology that mounts onto our dry powder delivery systems." I interpret that to mean that it doesn't sense sound or duration, just the pressure drop as someone inhales. Since that wouldn't vary by cartridge, I doubt that it can determine the actual amount of drug given. The user would have to enter the number somewhere. |
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Post by ktim on Aug 6, 2019 11:30:35 GMT -5
If a remote coaching provider like OneDrop could be engaged by MNKD to provide some period of training to new Afrezza users (a few months minimum) and actually go beyond the label utilizing developed experience with real world patients to instruct (this latter part is the big 'IF'), that could greatly benefit retention of patients and subsequently retention of newly prescribing docs. Based on what OneDrop charges for coaching per month, it seems 3 to 6 months of coaching might be a very reasonable addition to acquisition costs to boost retention. Only hitch is whether by being paid by MNKD they would then be stuck with adhering to only dosing info on label. Unlike clinics, this would be far less capital intensive and providing the service inexpensive enough that it could likely be absorbed without having to persuade insurers to foot the bill. I suspect it is not possible. |
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Post by ktim on Aug 6, 2019 11:37:39 GMT -5
You may be right. Because the cartridges are 4, 8, and 12U, I assumed 1, 2, and 3x durations of sound of powder moving through the Dreamboat. The signature of sound might show a short duration (less than 1 second) of air without powder, followed by a duration of air mixed with powder, and then a much longer duration of air without powder again assuming most of the inhale is simply air and that the cartridge empties within a second or two. Again, all speculation based on what the Mannkind paper said about how BlueHale uses sound to estimate pressure and rate of flow and assuming air+powder sounds different than air only. But, I don’t really know. Mannkind says that "BluHale® is a wireless pressure sensing technology that mounts onto our dry powder delivery systems." I interpret that to mean that it doesn't sense sound or duration, just the pressure drop as someone inhales. Since that wouldn't vary by cartridge, I doubt that it can determine the actual amount of drug given. The user would have to enter the number somewhere. No, it is acoustic based. See ipacrs.org/assets/uploads/outputs/12-MannKind.pdf as quoted below In BluHale technology, a small, discreet electro-acoustic device, housed in a jacket-like frame
(shown on the DreamBoatTM inhaler in Figures 1 and 2) that easily affixes to a dry powder inhaler,
measures the sound emitted from air flowing through the inhaler. The sound signal is calibrated
to the applied pressure drop across the inhaler. Unlike traditional pressure/flow sensors that
must be located within the flow path (Figure 3), sound can be measured remotely during dose
administration without affecting sensor integrity or changing airflow dynamics. In addition, the
inhaler interface with the subject is unchanged because the technology is compact and not
required to be in the flow path. The technology includes the frame, a communication dongle, a
battery charging cable, and a GUI (Figure 4).I would be a bit skeptical that there would be enough of an acoustic profile difference with cartridge size to distinguish, but wouldn't say it is beyond the realm of possible. |
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