|
|
Post by ktim on Dec 5, 2019 19:32:38 GMT -5
VDex certainly hasn't presented any data sets yet that would be interpreted as demonstrating superiority in the sense that would be needed for FDA to accept that claim. Further, there are plenty of anecdotal reports from non VDex Afrezza users achieving pretty amazing results, but of course anecdotal means little within scientific community. There are many patients on RAA that do far better than the average, so one could always present a few of them that looked "superior". If VDex is truly getting consistently good results it is a shame that they haven't collected data. Probably MNKD management would even look at them differently if they were collecting data in a manner that VDex could present results to the medical community. In my mind VDex released data so far doesn't even reach the level of convincing that was achieved by Sam's initial group of 5 or 6 patients. Sam's data at least had met the standard of identifying the patients ahead of time and then tracking/presenting their results for better or worse. I don't doubt that VDex is doing better than the average doc prescribing Afrezza. Whether they achieve better results than all other clinics, I've seen no evidence of that. Many forms of "working together" between pharma companies and clinics/doctors are illegal under current FDA regulation. So the devil is certainly in the detail as to what to credit or demerit Mike for not doing with VDex. Hard not to laugh at the posts that claim Vdex is superior without actually having proof of their success? Well, obviously from script numbers the overall retention rate over the years has been bad. Some might be explained by insurance but I've seen enough anecdotal cases of poor titration, etc. to know patient outcomes have been contributing factor. So from the standpoint of VDex having better results than many of the docs that have just dabbled with prescribing Afrezza, I'd certainly hope so and expect it is true. I think I might have better results than the average Afrezza prescriber, and I'm not a medical practitioner. If they really want to show that they have some special sauce beyond merely being willing to spend extra time with patient hand holding, they should do a study similar to the Levin one. If they could show even better results that would be great for them and great for MNKD. Given that it would be their own sites and not a lot of extra clinical work, the cost should really be very minimal. |
|
|
|
Post by sayhey24 on Dec 5, 2019 19:50:46 GMT -5
ktim - VDex is all about spending extra time with patient hand holding plus not under-dosing afrezza. The biggest issue in dosing afrezza is under dosing and then not second dosing.
The grip with VDex is, the last I checked they were still using the Libre Pro and still requiring the PWD to come back every 2 weeks. During that time the PWD is blinded to the CGM results. After CGM/afrezza use for a month a typical T2 should be pretty good at afrezza dosing, especially if the PWD can see the CGM results in near-real time but thats not what VDex was offering. Who wants to keep coming back every 2 weeks after that month just to have a CGM replaced which only the doctor can read anyway?
Replacing the Libre Pro with the eversense and providing cloud based guidance would be a huge step forward but it does not fit their existing billing model.
|
|
|
|
Post by ktim on Dec 5, 2019 20:00:10 GMT -5
ktim - VDex is all about spending extra time with patient hand holding plus not under-dosing afrezza. The biggest issue in dosing afrezza is under dosing and then not second dosing. The grip with VDex is, the last I checked they were still using the Libre Pro and still requiring the PWD to come back every 2 weeks. During that time the PWD is blinded to the CGM results. After CGM/afrezza use for a month a typical T2 should be pretty good at afrezza dosing, especially if the PWD can see the CGM results in near-real time but thats not what VDex was offering. Who wants to keep coming back every 2 weeks after that month just to have a CGM replaced which only the doctor can read anyway? Replacing the Libre Pro with the eversense and providing cloud based guidance would be a huge step forward but it does not fit their existing billing model. Well, for better or worse, making money is necessary. MNKD is a case in point of "if only we lived in a perfect world where medicine isn't affected by money". |
|
|
|
Post by hellodolly on Dec 6, 2019 7:30:28 GMT -5
ktim - VDex is all about spending extra time with patient hand holding plus not under-dosing afrezza. The biggest issue in dosing afrezza is under dosing and then not second dosing. The grip with VDex is, the last I checked they were still using the Libre Pro and still requiring the PWD to come back every 2 weeks. During that time the PWD is blinded to the CGM results. After CGM/afrezza use for a month a typical T2 should be pretty good at afrezza dosing, especially if the PWD can see the CGM results in near-real time but thats not what VDex was offering. Who wants to keep coming back every 2 weeks after that month just to have a CGM replaced which only the doctor can read anyway? Replacing the Libre Pro with the eversense and providing cloud based guidance would be a huge step forward but it does not fit their existing billing model. Now, that is a model that I could be very interested in. Instead of having the patients return for a visit, review their results stored in the cloud and give them a call just to touch base..hey, you're doing great you got this or...hey, what are you doing at XYZ and try this. |
|
|
|
Post by agedhippie on Dec 6, 2019 9:11:10 GMT -5
ktim - VDex is all about spending extra time with patient hand holding plus not under-dosing afrezza. The biggest issue in dosing afrezza is under dosing and then not second dosing. The grip with VDex is, the last I checked they were still using the Libre Pro and still requiring the PWD to come back every 2 weeks. During that time the PWD is blinded to the CGM results. After CGM/afrezza use for a month a typical T2 should be pretty good at afrezza dosing, especially if the PWD can see the CGM results in near-real time but thats not what VDex was offering. Who wants to keep coming back every 2 weeks after that month just to have a CGM replaced which only the doctor can read anyway? Replacing the Libre Pro with the eversense and providing cloud based guidance would be a huge step forward but it does not fit their existing billing model. I think you are wrong here. VDEX has a high touch because that is required when starting insulin. In that context the Pro makes complete sense as it's well covered by insurance as a procedure rather than a pharmacy benefit. The patient is going to be in contact at least once a week for the first month so reading the Pro is no big deal. It lets the doctor go over the results and explain what the patient is seeing. The Pro is time limited in that the insurance only covers it for a limited period each year so it is not a replacement for the normal Libre. The benefit of the Pro not being a pharmacy benefit is that you don't have to fight the PBM and insurer. There is some information here - provider.myfreestyle.com/freestyle-libre-pro-reimbursement.html |
|
|
|
Post by sportsrancho on Dec 6, 2019 9:43:13 GMT -5
ktim - VDex is all about spending extra time with patient hand holding plus not under-dosing afrezza. The biggest issue in dosing afrezza is under dosing and then not second dosing. The grip with VDex is, the last I checked they were still using the Libre Pro and still requiring the PWD to come back every 2 weeks. During that time the PWD is blinded to the CGM results. After CGM/afrezza use for a month a typical T2 should be pretty good at afrezza dosing, especially if the PWD can see the CGM results in near-real time but thats not what VDex was offering. Who wants to keep coming back every 2 weeks after that month just to have a CGM replaced which only the doctor can read anyway? Replacing the Libre Pro with the eversense and providing cloud based guidance would be a huge step forward but it does not fit their existing billing model. I think you are wrong here. VDEX has a high touch because that is required when starting insulin. In that context the Pro makes complete sense as it's well covered by insurance as a procedure rather than a pharmacy benefit. The patient is going to be in contact at least once a week for the first month so reading the Pro is no big deal. It lets the doctor go over the results and explain what the patient is seeing. The Pro is time limited in that the insurance only covers it for a limited period each year so it is not a replacement for the normal Libre. The benefit of the Pro not being a pharmacy benefit is that you don't have to fight the PBM and insurer. There is some information here - provider.myfreestyle.com/freestyle-libre-pro-reimbursement.html That is correct. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 9:55:17 GMT -5
I think you are wrong here. VDEX has a high touch because that is required when starting insulin. In that context the Pro makes complete sense as it's well covered by insurance as a procedure rather than a pharmacy benefit. The patient is going to be in contact at least once a week for the first month so reading the Pro is no big deal. It lets the doctor go over the results and explain what the patient is seeing. The Pro is time limited in that the insurance only covers it for a limited period each year so it is not a replacement for the normal Libre. The benefit of the Pro not being a pharmacy benefit is that you don't have to fight the PBM and insurer. There is some information here - provider.myfreestyle.com/freestyle-libre-pro-reimbursement.html That is correct. Like I said before my friends who went through VDEX told me it seemed like a MONEY SCAM. |
|
|
|
Post by agedhippie on Dec 6, 2019 9:58:51 GMT -5
Like I said before my friends who went through VDEX told me it seemed like a MONEY SCAM. You are LFD and I claim my $10 !  |
|
|
|
Post by sportsrancho on Dec 6, 2019 10:25:34 GMT -5
Casper your time is almost over. It’s amazing how anonymous people can come on here and make such claims when everybody knows who Bill is, everybody knows who I am, but nobody knows who you are. Yet.
After three years Vdex has figured out how many times they need to see the patient for the best A1 C results /insurance coverage and retention. Simple
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 10:42:25 GMT -5
Casper your time is almost over. It’s amazing how anonymous people can come on here and make such claims when everybody knows who Bill is, everybody knows who I am, but nobody knows who you are. Yet. After three years Vdex has figured out how many times they need to see the patient for the best A1 C results /insurance coverage and retention. Simple Yes everyone knows EXACTLY who you are. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 10:43:20 GMT -5
Like I said before my friends who went through VDEX told me it seemed like a MONEY SCAM. You are LFD and I claim my $10 ! That's absurd....LFD is totally against MNKD. We are on different ends of the spectrum. |
|
|
|
Post by brotherm1 on Dec 6, 2019 12:24:50 GMT -5
👢
|
|
|
|
Post by gamblerjag on Dec 6, 2019 12:29:58 GMT -5
You are LFD and I claim my $10 ! That's absurd....LFD is totally against MNKD. We are on different ends of the spectrum. . ,Casper, I may Not agree with the way the HFM Went down for the way he spoke about Mike But as for sports Rancho you cannot be more off base I think you need to reevaluate What she has provided to us stockholder and general public and u will realize she has been nothing but an asset to afrezza and mnkd. |
|
|
|
Post by mango on Dec 6, 2019 12:32:21 GMT -5
Like I said before my friends who went through VDEX told me it seemed like a MONEY SCAM. How about this— Since we provided you with evidentiary proof of VDex Medicare Coverage, how about YOU provide the SAME level of PROOF that your “friends” ever even used VDex services and PROOF that it is a money scam as you, and your “friends” claim. Oh, and no, some rambling reply of diversion & excuses won’t count. I’ll be waiting. |
|
|
|
Post by wgreystone on Dec 6, 2019 14:33:39 GMT -5
@casper06, if you are true long and want good return on your investment, then you should open up your mind to new ideas. Afrezza is the only hidden gem in this company. For other pipeline drug like TreT, the value it can bring to MNKD is not very high. The entire UTHR has only $4B market cap, how much would low teen royalty from UTHR's one drug be worth? Most likely several hundred millions when TreT hits peak sales.
Afrezza is the only chance for MNKD to hit $10B market cap. We need new strategy to drive Afrezza sales. Since Afrezza does not have superior label, the only way to push forward Afrezza sales is great patient result. The company failed to deliver that so far. You may claim the management team can figure it out in the future. but if they couldn't figure it in 3 years...
|
|
