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Post by peppy on Jun 10, 2021 14:39:38 GMT -5
www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2020.00539/fullPutting Scarring and Lung Fibrosis Into Context Our perspective is that the survivors of post-viral ARDS recover with mild residual pulmonary deficits and that interventions to prevent these mild abnormalities are unnecessary during the COVID-19 pandemic. Despite overlapping pathways, the timing, etiology, prognosis, and mechanistic underpinnings of post-viral scarring are quite different than chronic fibrosing interstitial lung disease. IPF is progressive and eventually fatal in most patients (39). Pulmonary fibrosis secondary to autoimmune causes such as rheumatoid arthritis and scleroderma may similarly progress and can be treated with an approved anti-fibrotic therapy. Patients with connective tissue diseases who develop lung fibrosis have a relatively poor prognosis (40). In contrast, while post-inflammatory changes can be seen in some ARDS survivors, progressive fibrosis has not been an important characteristic in ARDS related to respiratory infections and viral pneumonias. Our recent understanding of the pauci-immune mechanism of IPF differs substantially from the intense inflammatory response noted in ARDS and viral pneumonias. Moreover, viral inflammation induces robust T cell responses that can persist for months (41). It is quite possible that a significant subset of patients with COVID-19 have ARDS physiology (or atypical ARDS with relatively normal lung compliance) due to high-intensity lymphocytic alveolitis. This contrasts with other causes of ARDS in which an intense neutrophilic alveolitis is the rule. Comparisons have been made between ARDS-related fibrosis in humans and the intense inflammation and scarring in the bleomycin mouse model, a model in which young mice resolve their fibrotic lung disease (42). Age and underlying lung diseases may be important risk factors for enhanced fibrotic responses following ARDS. In the late stages of ARDS, diffuse alveolar damage with excessive and abnormal deposition of extracellular collagen matrix predominates as a consequence of the known acute inflammatory insult. Interstitial and intra-alveolar fibrosis is often noted to varying degrees. The elevated levels of NT-PCP-III, which is derived from the cleavage of procollagen III, may be a useful biomarker to stratify therapies in critically ill patients with different phenotypes (43). Fibrosis from ARDS, in contrast to IPF, does not progress nor lead to a dominant pattern of honeycombing. Although the etiology of IPF remains obscure, the pathogenesis is best understood as a consequence of repetitive injuries followed by dysregulated repair processes, facilitated by telomere shortening, not intense inflammation (44–46). Discussion An excellent and thought-provoking review by George et al. highlights many nuances related to the care of IPF patients in the context of COVID-19 (7). Caring for patients with an underlying fibrotic lung disease is complex. The currently available anti-fibrotics have pleiotropic effects, allowing for many hypotheses related to their potential utility in other disease processes. It is clear that studies will proliferate as commercial interests grow and the pandemic continues in the absence of effective anti-virals and vaccines. The currently approved anti-fibrotics are meant for chronic disease management and by no means are curative nor do they reverse fibrosis. As such, despite the enthusiasm to study these medications, we believe that there is insufficient scientific rationale to do so, given the favorable course and the low prevalence of clinically meaningful scarring in survivors. The number of patients suffering from COVID-19 is accumulating and will be millions worldwide. Certainly we must evaluate patients, prospectively and retrospectively, to define the scope and the burden of residual pulmonary deficits and the fibrotic changes to determine their clinical significance. However, we find ourselves asking: Is it worth spending valuable time, resources, and scientific energy studying anti-fibrotic therapies in acutely ill, consent-weary patients that truly need a targeted antiviral treatment or trial? The responsible answer is “no.” Let us keep our focus during the pandemic. More to read on the link here is what I read, blah blah blah. " In the late stages of ARDS, diffuse alveolar damage with excessive and abnormal deposition of extracellular collagen matrix predominates as a consequence of the known acute inflammatory" insult. Interstitial and intra-alveolar fibrosis is often noted to varying degrees.Babies on ventilators. Diffuse alveolar damage. The ventilator pressures and rates and oxygen delivery. Here is what helped, surfactant.
Carry on. |
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Post by awesomo on Jun 11, 2021 2:07:18 GMT -5
So I searched the address on Google, and the first result that popped up was this... lipidiopharma.com/contactSame exact address and suite as Thirona, mostly the same executives, etc. The second result was a law office with the exact same address and suite. www.gunder.com/offices/Oh, the address and suite also belongs to UPRIGHT POSTURE WALKER LLC. opencorporates.com/companies/us_ca/202005210209  , You can't make this crap up if you wanted to. Seems like another B.S. "partnership" a la Tanner. 3570 carmel mountain rd. suite 200 san diego ca 92130 |
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Post by cretin11 on Jun 11, 2021 7:04:24 GMT -5
Reminds me of that great song by The Knack
“My my my myyyyyy Thirona...”
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Post by mango on Jun 11, 2021 7:28:11 GMT -5
So I searched the address on Google, and the first result that popped up was this... lipidiopharma.com/contactSame exact address and suite as Thirona, mostly the same executives, etc. The second result was a law office with the exact same address and suite. www.gunder.com/offices/Oh, the address and suite also belongs to UPRIGHT POSTURE WALKER LLC. opencorporates.com/companies/us_ca/202005210209 , You can't make this crap up if you wanted to. Seems like another B.S. "partnership" a la Tanner. 3570 carmel mountain rd. suite 200 san diego ca 92130BS? Did you even read the details of the agreement? • MannKind will formulate FBM5712 as a dry powder formulation. • If initial studies are promising, MannKind can exercise certain rights to seek a full license to the compound for clinical development and commercialization for the treatment of fibrotic pulmonary diseases. MannKind is developing this NCE into a dry powder and conducting preclinical studies. If they are promising, we will purchase full rights to the NCE and move forward. Thirona is not doing anything other than allowing us to have access to their NCE. This is no different than us doing this if we had discovered this NCE through our own drug discovery process. Except here, we are paying someone else for their efforts of discovery to obtain it. |
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Post by goyocafe on Jun 11, 2021 7:29:04 GMT -5
So I searched the address on Google, and the first result that popped up was this... lipidiopharma.com/contactSame exact address and suite as Thirona, mostly the same executives, etc. The second result was a law office with the exact same address and suite. www.gunder.com/offices/Oh, the address and suite also belongs to UPRIGHT POSTURE WALKER LLC. opencorporates.com/companies/us_ca/202005210209 , You can't make this crap up if you wanted to. Seems like another B.S. "partnership" a la Tanner. 3570 carmel mountain rd. suite 200 san diego ca 92130Who is married to who? |
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Post by awesomo on Jun 11, 2021 7:53:44 GMT -5
So I searched the address on Google, and the first result that popped up was this... lipidiopharma.com/contactSame exact address and suite as Thirona, mostly the same executives, etc. The second result was a law office with the exact same address and suite. www.gunder.com/offices/Oh, the address and suite also belongs to UPRIGHT POSTURE WALKER LLC. opencorporates.com/companies/us_ca/202005210209 , You can't make this crap up if you wanted to. Seems like another B.S. "partnership" a la Tanner. 3570 carmel mountain rd. suite 200 san diego ca 92130BS? Did you even read the details of the agreement? • MannKind will formulate FBM5712 as a dry powder formulation. • If initial studies are promising, MannKind can exercise certain rights to seek a full license to the compound for clinical development and commercialization for the treatment of fibrotic pulmonary diseases. MannKind is developing this NCE into a dry powder and conducting preclinical studies. If they are promising, we will purchase full rights to the NCE and move forward. Thirona is not doing anything other than allowing us to have access to their NCE. This is no different than us doing this if we had discovered this NCE through our own drug discovery process. Except here, we are paying someone else for their efforts of discovery to obtain it. You see that big fat “If” in bullet point two? The entire agreement rests on that. So again, a “partnership” with nothing concrete, no financial details, just “we’re maybe gonna do something in a few years, but probably not”. This doesn’t even look like an actual company especially given that you can barely find any info on them and they “share” a suite with like 4+ other completely random entities. I’ll bet you good money mango that’s nothing comes of this. You’re so confident, put your money where your mouth is. |
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Post by cretin11 on Jun 11, 2021 7:57:28 GMT -5
BS? Did you even read the details of the agreement? • MannKind will formulate FBM5712 as a dry powder formulation. • If initial studies are promising, MannKind can exercise certain rights to seek a full license to the compound for clinical development and commercialization for the treatment of fibrotic pulmonary diseases. MannKind is developing this NCE into a dry powder and conducting preclinical studies. If they are promising, we will purchase full rights to the NCE and move forward. Thirona is not doing anything other than allowing us to have access to their NCE. This is no different than us doing this if we had discovered this NCE through our own drug discovery process. Except here, we are paying someone else for their efforts of discovery to obtain it. You see that big fat “If” in bullet point two? The entire agreement rests on that. So again, a “partnership” with nothing concrete, no financial details, just “we’re maybe gonna do something, but probably not”. This doesn’t even look like an actual company especially given that you can barely find any info on them and they “share” a suite with like 4+ other completely random entities. I’ll bet you good money mango that’s nothing comes of this. You’re so confident, put your money where your mouth is. How about a prop bet: will this Thirona partnership pay off better or worse than the Torrey Pines partnership? |
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Post by Clement on Jun 11, 2021 8:01:05 GMT -5
A small company using its lawyer's office as address is not unusual. The lawyer has more than one client.
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Post by mango on Jun 11, 2021 8:01:36 GMT -5
BS? Did you even read the details of the agreement? • MannKind will formulate FBM5712 as a dry powder formulation. • If initial studies are promising, MannKind can exercise certain rights to seek a full license to the compound for clinical development and commercialization for the treatment of fibrotic pulmonary diseases. MannKind is developing this NCE into a dry powder and conducting preclinical studies. If they are promising, we will purchase full rights to the NCE and move forward. Thirona is not doing anything other than allowing us to have access to their NCE. This is no different than us doing this if we had discovered this NCE through our own drug discovery process. Except here, we are paying someone else for their efforts of discovery to obtain it. You see that big fat “If” in bullet point two? The entire agreement rests on that. So again, a “partnership” with nothing concrete, no financial details, just “we’re maybe gonna do something in a few years, but probably not”. This doesn’t even look like an actual company especially given that you can barely find any info on them and they “share” a suite with like 4+ other completely random entities. I’ll bet you good money mango that’s nothing comes of this. You’re so confident, put your money where your mouth is. Is owning shares of MNKD not putting my money where my mouth is? Furthermore, this is a private preclinical company. All that matters for us is we have access to the NCE for our own development. What Thirona is or is not is entirely irrelevant. We paid for the NCE because it looks promising and feasible for Technosphere application and development. |
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Post by awesomo on Jun 11, 2021 8:02:00 GMT -5
You see that big fat “If” in bullet point two? The entire agreement rests on that. So again, a “partnership” with nothing concrete, no financial details, just “we’re maybe gonna do something, but probably not”. This doesn’t even look like an actual company especially given that you can barely find any info on them and they “share” a suite with like 4+ other completely random entities. I’ll bet you good money mango that’s nothing comes of this. You’re so confident, put your money where your mouth is. How about a prop bet: will this Thirona partnership pay off better or worse than the Torrey Pines partnership? Going to be neck and neck with that and that lovely Tanner Pharma partnership. tannerpharma.com/tanner-pharma-group-signs-distribution-agreement-mannkind-corporation/ |
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Post by awesomo on Jun 11, 2021 8:05:47 GMT -5
A small company using its lawyer's office as address is not unusual. The lawyer has more than one client. That’s not a “small company”, that’s like a few random people starting an llc. Heck go ahead and search for the “CEO”, not a single mention of Thirona. I’ve seen this song and dance enough to know it’s bunk. J Gordon Foulkes |
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Post by mango on Jun 11, 2021 8:13:35 GMT -5
Honestly who cares and why should it matter? We have access and rights if we choose to a promising NCE for pulmonary diseases. That’s what matters.
Some of you make a spectacle out of everything. It’s laughable.
We have a NCE in development now, that is ALL that matters with this deal.
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Post by awesomo on Jun 11, 2021 8:18:02 GMT -5
Honestly who cares and why should it matter? We have access and rights if we choose to a promising NCE for pulmonary diseases. That’s what matters. Some of you make a spectacle out of everything. It’s laughable. We have a NCE in development now, that is ALL that matters with this deal. Yeah who cares about details and concrete results, give us more partnerships that are all fluff and amount to nothing! |
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Post by Clement on Jun 11, 2021 8:24:03 GMT -5
Easy now, you'll hurt your throat.
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Post by uvula on Jun 11, 2021 8:45:09 GMT -5
Honestly who cares and why should it matter? We have access and rights if we choose to a promising NCE for pulmonary diseases. That’s what matters. Some of you make a spectacle out of everything. It’s laughable. We have a NCE in development now, that is ALL that matters with this deal. If your husband or wife came home with a new car wouldn't you want to know what it cost? |
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, You can't make this crap up if you wanted to. Seems like another B.S. "partnership" a la Tanner.
