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Post by boca1girl on Dec 30, 2021 11:12:05 GMT -5
Do we know who owns the Tyvaso DPI IP? I thought both UTHR and MNKD jointly hold the patent(s). |
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Post by veritasfiliatemporis on Dec 30, 2021 11:39:50 GMT -5
Tyvaso??? No we do not know who owns Tyvaso... KFC maybe
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Post by prcgorman2 on Dec 30, 2021 14:08:52 GMT -5
Several good points being made on this thread. Hopium is something we know well here, it stands to reason the LQDA crowd partakes in it too. It seems the uncertainty of the situation is helping to keep both MNKD’s and LQDA’s share prices depressed. That hopefully means opportunity for one or both to realize gains, once this dispute gets resolved. Martine has clearly hitched her wagon to MNKD’s formulation. Presumably she’d rather not unhitch it and switch wagons. However, it’s also safe to assume she’s at least having those conversations with her team, in conjunction with the convos she has with legal when they give her the real scoop on how they view their chances in court (probably a different story than what gets communicated publicly - and that goes for LQDA too of course). Hitching and unhitching wagons? Interesting choice of metaphor. James Garner played the role of F. Ross Johnson, CEO and President of RJR Nabisco in the made-for-TV movie based on a true story called, “Barbarians At The Gate”. There’s a great line where he yells at a researcher, “Are you telling me I paid $100M for a smokeless cigarette that smells like a fart and tastes like shit? Jesus Christ! The Board is going to crucify me!!!” I always liked that movie. It was a great illustration of how much money a CEO of a large company can waste before it becomes the kind of issue that costs them their job. I would say Martine did more than “hitch” her wagon. She made a very serious commitment. Switch wagons? Puhleeze. |
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Post by buyitonsale on Dec 30, 2021 15:25:50 GMT -5
investors.mannkindcorp.com/static-files/abc3aa1e-20ed-40b7-9e7e-7079d3a52b96I only look at the SEC filings or actual comments from UTHR and MNKD for info. The link above is for the latest 10-Q. Everything publicly known regarding UTHR agreement is there under the following item: 7. Collaboration, Licensing and Other Arrangements My interpretation of all this and also based on the comments from MNKD CEO recently - MNKD and UTHR have an exclusive agreement for PAH related indications. That means that either company can only conduct PAH related development and marketing with each other and no other company. UTHR resubmitted NDA again, which means that they intend to obtain approval for Tyvaso DPI. Those are facts up until now. UTHR can terminate the agreement with MNKD of course, but their latest actions regarding supply agreement for Tyvaso DPI extension to 2031 as well as resubmission of NDA speak to their intention to market Tyvaso DPI.
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Post by cretin11 on Dec 30, 2021 16:08:41 GMT -5
Several good points being made on this thread. Hopium is something we know well here, it stands to reason the LQDA crowd partakes in it too. It seems the uncertainty of the situation is helping to keep both MNKD’s and LQDA’s share prices depressed. That hopefully means opportunity for one or both to realize gains, once this dispute gets resolved. Martine has clearly hitched her wagon to MNKD’s formulation. Presumably she’d rather not unhitch it and switch wagons. However, it’s also safe to assume she’s at least having those conversations with her team, in conjunction with the convos she has with legal when they give her the real scoop on how they view their chances in court (probably a different story than what gets communicated publicly - and that goes for LQDA too of course). Hitching and unhitching wagons? Interesting choice of metaphor. James Garner played the role of F. Ross Johnson, CEO and President of RJR Nabisco in the made-for-TV movie based on a true story called, “Barbarians At The Gate”. There’s a great line where he yells at a researcher, “Are you telling me I paid $100M for a smokeless cigarette that smells like a fart and tastes like shit? Jesus Christ! The Board is going to crucify me!!!” I always liked that movie. It was a great illustration of how much money a CEO of a large company can waste before it becomes the kind of issue that costs them their job. I would say Martine did more than “hitch” her wagon. She made a very serious commitment. Switch wagons? Puhleeze. ”a very serious commitment” - oh ok, thanks for using such precise terminology. I guess that means it must be forever, like diamonds 💎 You’d think an investor in MNKD would know better. Good luck with the head in sand strategy, it probably feels great but it isn’t typically a smart way to hold onto one’s money. |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Dec 30, 2021 17:19:14 GMT -5
Hitching and unhitching wagons? Interesting choice of metaphor. James Garner played the role of F. Ross Johnson, CEO and President of RJR Nabisco in the made-for-TV movie based on a true story called, “Barbarians At The Gate”. There’s a great line where he yells at a researcher, “Are you telling me I paid $100M for a smokeless cigarette that smells like a fart and tastes like shit? Jesus Christ! The Board is going to crucify me!!!” I always liked that movie. It was a great illustration of how much money a CEO of a large company can waste before it becomes the kind of issue that costs them their job. I would say Martine did more than “hitch” her wagon. She made a very serious commitment. Switch wagons? Puhleeze. ”a very serious commitment” - oh ok, thanks for using such precise terminology. I guess that means it must be forever, like diamonds 💎 You’d think an investor in MNKD would know better. Good luck with the head in sand strategy, it probably feels great but it isn’t typically a smart way to hold onto one’s money. You didn’t miss the point, did you? I need to spell out for you what constitutes a serious commitment? Have my last several posts not pointed to the more than $200,000,000 invested in the TreT partnership with Mannkind? (I think it is actually closer to $300M but I was trying to be conservative). And you called it hitched to a wagon. How about between 200 and 300 MILLION wagons? What in the world makes you think it is easy to just toss that in the garbage? The CEO of RJR Nabisco lost his job for wasting less than half of that. Even given inflation, and in the words of our President (then VP) lauding the passage of the ACA (aka Obamacare), “This is a BFD!” I AM an investor in Mannkind. My investment did very well this year largely because Dr. Martine Rothblatt “hitched” her wagon to Mannkind in a way that convinced the street, at least. If the street thought LQDA was a serious problem, I assume we wouldn’t lose pennies on the SP. It would be dollars. Is my head in the sand? I don’t think so. And I won’t say where I think your head is. |
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Post by cretin11 on Dec 30, 2021 17:50:36 GMT -5
Classic prc rant when someone dares to post a view that isn’t rosy. The only worse offense is when anyone posts the slightest criticism of MC. Interesting.
You say there is a zero percent chance that LQDA either prevails in the litigation or that Martine and LQDA resolve it in a way that entails UTHR using LQDA technology? Zero percent is a very low number. I think it’s less than 50% but greater than zero. You’re entitled to your view, and I’m entitled to call that head in the sand mentality. (And you’re entitled to your view that my head is wherever you think it is, whatever works for you.)
According to you, $200M is so much money that it’s inconceivable Martine would change her plans. Maybe so. I remember this company called Sanofi that invested a few hundred million in a partnership. But lightning surely can’t strike twice. (You like “lightning striking twice” better than “unhitching wagons” right? You’re welcome!). 😂
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Post by prcgorman2 on Dec 30, 2021 21:31:59 GMT -5
You’re right. It was a rant. You want to hang on to how LQDA is a significant threat? OK. Suit yourself.
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Post by patten1962 on Dec 30, 2021 21:58:11 GMT -5
You’re right. It was a rant. You want to hang on to how LQDA is a significant threat? OK. Suit yourself. I am Pro Mannkind. Just wonder as "Investors" if it is not wise to hedge with a position in LQDA? We all own multiple stocks, wondering if not a good idea to own both? |
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Post by cretin11 on Dec 30, 2021 22:32:50 GMT -5
You’re right. It was a rant. You want to hang on to how LQDA is a significant threat? OK. Suit yourself. I am Pro Mannkind. Just wonder as "Investors" if it is not wise to hedge with a position in LQDA? We all own multiple stocks, wondering if not a good idea to own both? Seems like sound logic to me, though obviously not everyone here will like your suggestion. Some might view it as being “disloyal.” Being pro-MNKD does not mean you can’t consider real risks to the investment thesis. Taking risks into account is being wise, which is a good trait to have as an investor. |
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Post by patten1962 on Dec 31, 2021 6:59:55 GMT -5
I am Pro Mannkind. Just wonder as "Investors" if it is not wise to hedge with a position in LQDA? We all own multiple stocks, wondering if not a good idea to own both? Seems like sound logic to me, though obviously not everyone here will like your suggestion. Some might view it as being “disloyal.” Being pro-MNKD does not mean you can’t consider real risks to the investment thesis. Taking risks into account is being wise, which is a good trait to have as an investor. It's funny, thinking about adding LQDA FEELS DIRTY! |
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Post by derekewhitlock on Dec 31, 2021 8:14:50 GMT -5
Classic prc rant when someone dares to post a view that isn’t rosy. The only worse offense is when anyone posts the slightest criticism of MC. Interesting. You say there is a zero percent chance that LQDA either prevails in the litigation or that Martine and LQDA resolve it in a way that entails UTHR using LQDA technology? Zero percent is a very low number. I think it’s less than 50% but greater than zero. You’re entitled to your view, and I’m entitled to call that head in the sand mentality. (And you’re entitled to your view that my head is wherever you think it is, whatever works for you.) According to you, $200M is so much money that it’s inconceivable Martine would change her plans. Maybe so. I remember this company called Sanofi that invested a few hundred million in a partnership. But lightning surely can’t strike twice. (You like “lightning striking twice” better than “unhitching wagons” right? You’re welcome!). 😂 Look at size of Sanofi and UTHR. UTHR's investment into MNKD was approximately 12 times the size of Sanofi's based on % of their respective market caps. No way, UTHR tosses that away as shown by the recent resubmission. |
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Post by cretin11 on Dec 31, 2021 10:21:18 GMT -5
Seems like sound logic to me, though obviously not everyone here will like your suggestion. Some might view it as being “disloyal.” Being pro-MNKD does not mean you can’t consider real risks to the investment thesis. Taking risks into account is being wise, which is a good trait to have as an investor. It's funny, thinking about adding LQDA FEELS DIRTY! I know what you mean. It’s an interesting phenomenon following a stock as closely as we follow MNKD. It gets to be like following a sports team, easy to get emotionally invested as well as of course financially. So LQDA can become our “enemy” because what they are doing could hurt MNKD, our “team”. And message boards can become an echo chamber where certain posters quickly attack those who don’t stick to the pro-MNKD message. A lot of us got into MNKD because we believed Afrezza would revolutionize diabetes treatment and help millions of PWDs. And we aren’t giving up on that yet, though we all thought we’d be farther along by now. Now with UTHR, MNKD and LQDA, we are talking PAH and once again here’s a chance to help people (not as revolutionary as Afrezza IMO, but still helping millions of people). To your point patten, it seems likely that some combination of UTHR, MNKD and LQDA are going to succeed and benefit from how this shakes out. Most of us here think UTHR and MNKD are the most likely combination. But if LQDA does have a better mousetrap, then that’s the way it goes and it should still help millions of people with PAH. There is some chance of that being the case and if it happens, being invested in LQDA isn’t dirty, it’s just wise investing. Good luck to you and to all of us in 2022, even y’all who think my head is stuck somewhere it shouldn’t be! 😘 I’ve learned a lot from this place, the mods here are second to none. Let’s hope the management team at MNKD can be half as good and 2022 is the year the pipeline isn’t just a pipe dream, we stop resting and start growing, and veins of gold become embarrassments of riches (sorry couldn’t resist). Happy New Year! |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Dec 31, 2021 10:41:55 GMT -5
I am Pro Mannkind. Just wonder as "Investors" if it is not wise to hedge with a position in LQDA? We all own multiple stocks, wondering if not a good idea to own both? Seems like sound logic to me, though obviously not everyone here will like your suggestion. Some might view it as being “disloyal.” Being pro-MNKD does not mean you can’t consider real risks to the investment thesis. Taking risks into account is being wise, which is a good trait to have as an investor. Is “hedging” with an investment in LQDA disloyal? No. Ill advised? Perhaps. I think in terms of complimentary investments more than “hedge” investments. Per ST comments, LQDA represents “at least 10%” of the PAH market which was started by UTHR and which, apparently, is assumed to continue market dominance. It might be ok to take a flyer on LQDA, but I’m not planning on it. I have, however, bought some NRXP, and SENS. NRXP was totally a flyer (in my opinion). SENS was because I couldn’t afford DXCM.  And, because I think their innovative sensory technology will continue to improve and last longer and be smaller and less obtrusive and therefore more competitive. If they succeed, my guess is they will have a modest market share, make me a little money, and then get bought out by DXCM or some other larger company. I’ve watched interviews of Martine Rothblatt. I’ve read her bio. I’ve looked at UTHR’s plans for trans-species transplants. It’s a creepy story that might have been written by Dr. Michael Crichton, but there is no denying Dr. Rothblatt has a big vision and is executing on it. It reminds me of Dr. Al Mann, a lot. She’s obviously a brilliant laywer and doctor and CEO, and like Dr. Mann, a self-made billionaire. Like Dr. Castagna, CEO of Mannkind, Dr. Rothblatt earned her doctorate. Al Mann’s degree was awarded. What is common about the three is uncommon drive. What’s the story for LQDA? What is their vision? Where do they go after they conquer 10% of the market dominated by UTHR? But maybe a convincing story of depth, outstanding innovation and intellect doesn’t really matter. Make a little money “hedging” if you can and move on is a strategy too. I obviously tend towards buy-and-hold. A “know what you own” kind of investor. Each to their own. I can’t say my investing has made me wealthy. If I ever can, it will almost certainly be because of MNKD. |
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Post by anderson on Dec 31, 2021 10:48:02 GMT -5
Even if LQDA wins the lawsuit they are in the same boat MNKD was in after being dumped by Sanofi, not much money to commercialize. $67 mil cash/cash equivalents on hand last quarter, looks like $8 mil burn rate per quarter. So about 2 years worth of operating expenses as is.(Has anyone heard of LQDA building out for a commercial launch, building inventory, etc?) Hence they will need dilute like mad or get a partner to gear up for mass production, advertising, etc. Anyone here know who the big players are in the PAH space that will be competing for that partnership? Will those partnership offers be extended before the lawsuit is settled? Even if Tyvaso DPI approval drags out till summer it is highly unlike LQDA can beat UTHR to market by very much.
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And, because I think their innovative sensory technology will continue to improve and last longer and be smaller and less obtrusive and therefore more competitive. If they succeed, my guess is they will have a modest market share, make me a little money, and then get bought out by DXCM or some other larger company.