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Post by stevil on May 19, 2022 12:39:28 GMT -5
Can you imagine the packaging for V-GO?? A one month supply must come in a huge box. The device is not small like the G6 transmitter. Hopefully MNKD can reengineer it into a smaller footprint. I'm far from a patent lawyer, but if they were going to redesign the unit, would they still have to buy the technology? Wouldn't that qualify it as a different device entirely. I can't imagine "the process" on such a mechanical and unsophisticated device would be too difficult to work around. This one is really a head-scratcher for me for all of the reasons aged has addressed. I would imagine the value of this system is it's already an approved device and R&D has already been done. I would think if they were planning on modifying it in any way that they wouldn't have purchased the company. I wonder if one of the benefits is to avoid lipohypertrophy? Maybe it offers a more consistent and accurate dosing profile? |
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Post by castlerockchris on May 19, 2022 12:43:41 GMT -5
Call me crazy, and I will admit I do not know much yet about who is using V-GO, or why, but they are T-2s and Afrezza is approved for use with T-2s, soooo...
If they really have 10,000 people using V-Go and MNKD can sell just 5% of them on using Afrezza, pretty sure that comes close to doubling Afrezza scripts and covers the cost of acquisition pretty quickly. After that, who cares.
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Post by porkini on May 19, 2022 12:50:43 GMT -5
Can you imagine the packaging for V-GO?? A one month supply must come in a huge box. The device is not small like the G6 transmitter. Hopefully MNKD can reengineer it into a smaller footprint. I'm far from a patent lawyer, but if they were going to redesign the unit, would they still have to buy the technology? Wouldn't that qualify it as a different device entirely. I can't imagine "the process" on such a mechanical and unsophisticated device would be too difficult to work around. This one is really a head-scratcher for me for all of the reasons aged has addressed. I would imagine the value of this system is it's already an approved device and R&D has already been done. I would think if they were planning on modifying it in any way that they wouldn't have purchased the company. I wonder if one of the benefits is to avoid lipohypertrophy? Maybe it offers a more consistent and accurate dosing profile? Maybe it just appears "unsophisticated" from the picture. This article posted a bit earlier shows an "exploded" picture of the device mnkd.proboards.com/post/238499/threadFrom the article ( www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/v-go-dissecting-a-new-breed-of-patch-pump-for-type-2s#By-DMine-Columnist-/-Correspondent-Wil-Dubois): |
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Post by castlerockchris on May 19, 2022 13:00:42 GMT -5
One more thought on this device. Think India and other countries with a very large poor population that struggle with hygienic issues - access to clean water etc. Afrezza gets approved in India and we follow along with a more affordable, reliable, hygienic and highly accessible insulin delivery system compared pumps or even possibly needle use in some of these geographies. Wouldn't there be a market there?
Just trying to learn from the collective.
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Post by stevil on May 19, 2022 13:14:41 GMT -5
Barring new information, I completely agree with Aged. This device doesn't make sense unless you need to bolus small doses with a low basal requirement. The capacity isn't very large so I wouldn't think this would apply to too many people. Generally if a type 2 is on prandial insulin, their basal requirement is already pretty high. So this device really doesn't offer anything new than what a once-daily basal injection already would. They essentially do the same thing. You're just trading a needle stick for a cartridge. This is likely why the company is having trouble finding traction in the industry.
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Post by sayhey24 on May 19, 2022 17:46:29 GMT -5
Call me crazy, and I will admit I do not know much yet about who is using V-GO, or why, but they are T-2s and Afrezza is approved for use with T-2s, soooo... If they really have 10,000 people using V-Go and MNKD can sell just 5% of them on using Afrezza, pretty sure that comes close to doubling Afrezza scripts and covers the cost of acquisition pretty quickly. After that, who cares. Think about what you are saying - "If they really have 10,000 people using V-Go and MNKD can sell just 5% of them on using Afrezza." Why are the V-Go patients using V-Go in the first place? If they were treated with afrezza first they should not need V-Go. They are competing products which should be targeting different ends of the SoC spectrum. Afrezza should be targeting the step 2 GLP1 market. V-Go is step 4 after all the antiglycemics have failed. Even then it is probably easier to take a once a day shot of Tresiba. We already know afrezza as a step 5 - add mealtime insulin after the basal - is an epic failure based on sales. They are using V-Go most likely because the GP is following the SoC steps and the PWD did not want to take a daily shot. This is not where MNKD should be focused nor wasting any resources. Sending V-Go sales guys out to sell afrezza who do not understand afrezza who are also now conflicted is a recipe for disaster. At best they are either going to try and sell afrezza into step 2 and V-Go should never be needed or they are going to try and wait and then sell V-Go and hope things continue to go bad and then add afrezza. The other option is they sell afrezza in step 4 and V-Go is direct competition to afrezza and V-Go should never get prescribed. Wow - my head hurts just thinking about this. Spending that $10M on an afrezza-Mounjaro trial would have been a much better investment of both time and money. These same GPs who prescribed V-Go are probably following the ADA SoC so even having the discussion with them about afrezza as a step 2 until the SoC says so is on a large scale a waste of time. |
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Post by sayhey24 on May 19, 2022 18:13:00 GMT -5
One more thought on this device. Think India and other countries with a very large poor population that struggle with hygienic issues - access to clean water etc. Afrezza gets approved in India and we follow along with a more affordable, reliable, hygienic and highly accessible insulin delivery system compared pumps or even possibly needle use in some of these geographies. Wouldn't there be a market there? Just trying to learn from the collective. My experience with the people in India is limited. I did help out several years ago on a small scale getting some of the first Libres to a hand full of doctors who had never seen anything like it and they thought they were magic. One thing I learned from this group was insulin in India was a 5 letter word - death. While it may not be that way across the various regions it seemed more the norm. My colleague took afrezza there but he did everything he could to not let them know afrezza was insulin. Even his family members would not take it at first if they knew it was insulin. To them it was glucose powder and it too worked magic. When I saw the ABP of the one woman she was initially in the 400+ range, 3 months later boom - near norm using only afrezza. Her son was in the 300s and would not take afrezza because it was insulin. I don't know whatever happened to him. |
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Post by agedhippie on May 20, 2022 15:18:36 GMT -5
One more thought on this device. Think India and other countries with a very large poor population that struggle with hygienic issues - access to clean water etc. Afrezza gets approved in India and we follow along with a more affordable, reliable, hygienic and highly accessible insulin delivery system compared pumps or even possibly needle use in some of these geographies. Wouldn't there be a market there? Just trying to learn from the collective. I think it would be the reverse for hygiene and infection. A single injection that is over in seconds once a day vs. an injection that embeds a needle embedded in your arm for 24 hours. It's notable that V-Go lost their European and Middle Eastern distributors due to pricing pressure. |
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