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Post by prcgorman2 on Jan 30, 2023 14:19:49 GMT -5
@sayhey I was initially talking to prc who said we need a more persistent and better sales team. Doctors aren’t unlike anyone else. Who likes having door to door salespeople show up at their house all the time? Or telemarketers blowing up your phone? The only reason we tolerate them at all (the vast majority of the time, if not completely) is because of the quid pro quo food they bring. They take care of our office staff with goodies, I give you an ear for a few minutes. We’re too busy during the daytime to entertain company. I barely talk to my wife during the day. Why would I spend that time with a stranger? I agree the issue is with leadership. You also can’t legally say anything that’s not in the literature. You can point to individual studies, but again, this stuff takes a long time, which is why we’re handed printed materials. To keep things concise and highlight the key memorable points when the salespeople are gone. You misunderstood. I was not saying they need to be more persistent. I was saying they would benefit from sayhey24's unquenchable enthusiasm, his knowledge and passion. I think its amusing that you "tolerate" drug reps. So very generous of you. |
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Post by lennymnkd on Jan 30, 2023 14:20:57 GMT -5
Yes .. but my point was drugs in general…
I bet that my pillow guy could get in .
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Post by cretin11 on Jan 30, 2023 16:27:38 GMT -5
Steve, I agree with you. It’s not a criticism of MannKind that they don’t know how to sell their product. The company is first and foremost a dynamic medical company developing products that change people’s lives. They need another entity to collaborate with them to market their products. The problem going back to the beginning with the Sanofi deal was that the then mnkd management just handed over Afrezza without having any say in how it was marketed. I brought this up at the 2015 shareholder meeting is a lot of agreement in the room. I believe Mike would demand much more say in the marketing. Lets say I was Robert Frost and some lunatic contacted me and convinced me the way to really break into the T2 market with the Libre was with afrezza. Do you think Robert Frost would want Mike's say??? I am sure he and his team would like to understand why they failed and their lessons learned and any suggestions they may have but letting Mike in the middle of things? Do you think Martine is letting Mike have much say with how Tyvaso DPI is being marketed and sold? Totally agree, sayhey. We are better off with Mike having less say in the marketing, not more. You know Martine is making sure that's the case, and let's watch Tyvaso sales follow the proper trajectory. We can all contrast that with our Afrezza track record. Stevil points out (and he has an advantage of perspective over the rest of us), simply throwing more money to get a more persistent sales team won't cut it. I suspect (hope) even Mike understands this, as sales/marketing have not been his forte, at least with MNKD. A good CEO recognizes strengths and weaknesses and stays in the right lanes. Our cash position is getting better with time, let's not squander that by misallocating $$ resources. Leave the sales to those who do it well, and MNKD can still profit handsomely. |
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Post by mango on Jan 30, 2023 16:48:41 GMT -5
@sayhey I was initially talking to prc who said we need a more persistent and better sales team. Doctors aren’t unlike anyone else. Who likes having door to door salespeople show up at their house all the time? Or telemarketers blowing up your phone? The only reason we tolerate them at all (the vast majority of the time, if not completely) is because of the quid pro quo food they bring. They take care of our office staff with goodies, I give you an ear for a few minutes. We’re too busy during the daytime to entertain company. I barely talk to my wife during the day. Why would I spend that time with a stranger? I agree the issue is with leadership. You also can’t legally say anything that’s not in the literature. You can point to individual studies, but again, this stuff takes a long time, which is why we’re handed printed materials. To keep things concise and highlight the key memorable points when the salespeople are gone. You misunderstood. I was not saying they need to be more persistent. I was saying they would benefit from sayhey24's unquenchable enthusiasm, his knowledge and passion. I think its amusing that you "tolerate" drug reps. So very generous of you. Yeah…that’s appalling. There’s so many things wrong here. I’m not sure if it’s just stevil, the office he works at or just the entire medical machine. I do know plenty of people who appreciate friendly, knowledgeable drug reps. They can be a tremendous asset. At least stevil has time for strangers on proboards though, eh? |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Jan 30, 2023 17:41:55 GMT -5
Mike would demand much more say in the marketing???Lets say I was Robert Frost and some lunatic contacted me and convinced me the way to really break into the T2 market with the Libre was with afrezza. Do you think Robert Frost would want Mike's say??? I am sure he and his team would like to understand why they failed and their lessons learned and any suggestions they may have but letting Mike in the middle of things? Do you think Martine is letting Mike have much say with how Tyvaso DPI is being marketed and sold? Totally agree, sayhey. We are better off with Mike having less say in the marketing, not more. You know Martine is making sure that's the case, and let's watch Tyvaso sales follow the proper trajectory. We can all contrast that with our Afrezza track record. Stevil points out (and he has an advantage of perspective over the rest of us), simply throwing more money to get a more persistent sales team won't cut it. I suspect (hope) even Mike understands this, as sales/marketing have not been his forte, at least with MNKD. A good CEO recognizes strengths and weaknesses and stays in the right lanes. Our cash position is getting better with time, let's not squander that by misallocating $$ resources. Leave the sales to those who do it well, and MNKD can still profit handsomely. What a bunch of baloney. Way to throw foo at MannKind's CEO. You have either forgotten or choose to ignore why Mike was hired and what his prior position with Amgen and others were before coming to MannKind. He specialized in the management of re-launching drugs which had struggled to gain traction in the marketplace. What was the SPECIFIC job he was hired to do? Re-launch Afrezza. Look at the sales of Afrezza before Mike got here, and then after. He's managed to do far better than Sanofi and with a fraction of the resources. And Afrezza sales growth is agonizing slow, but the revenue is still material, and growing. And do not forget, the company was literally teetering on the brink of bankruptcy and Sanofi had conducted NONE of the trials needed to successfully market Afrezza. I'm surprised he accepted the job, let alone sought it. Imagine leaving an important executive position at a well-known and successful pharmaceutical company and joining a one-drug, nearly bankrupt company with toxic debt and leftover marketing materials, SKUs, et cetera from Sanofi? It blows my mind. Once he became CEO, his focus had to be righting the ship and that meant a lot more than pouring all available resources into marketing Afrezza which will never be as successful as Humalog, Novolog, etc, according to stevil, agedhippie, and others until MannKind is able to supply persuasive clinical data on the same scale as the big 3. That has quite simply been beyond their means for the nearly 6 years Mike has been here. Maybe not now, but hopefully soon, thanks to the additional revenue from Tyvaso DPI (and V-Go) that capability may be in reach.
Since you've forgotten or ignored Mike's curriculum vitae, let me help you out.
VALENCIA, Calif., March 14, 2016 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- MannKind Corporation (NASDAQ:MNKD) (TASE:MNKD) today announced that Michael E. Castagna, Pharm.D., has joined the company as its Chief Commercial Officer, effective immediately. Dr. Castagna will lead commercialization efforts for Afrezza®, reporting to Matthew Pfeffer, Chief Executive Officer, and will serve on MannKind's executive leadership team.
Dr. Castagna has over 20 years of experience in healthcare, pharmaceutical, biotech and specialty pharmacy industries. He joins MannKind from Amgen, Inc., where he spent over three years as Vice President, Global Commercial Lead for a portfolio of nine biosimilar drugs, and Vice President, Global Lifecycle Management. Prior to Amgen, Dr. Castagna, was Executive Director of Bristol-Myers Squibb's Immunology franchise, where he served as co-lead to relaunch Orencia IV and launch Orencia SC, both rheumatoid arthritis drugs. Before BMS, Dr. Castagna was with Sandoz (Novartis) as Vice President and Division Head for Biopharmaceuticals, North America, where he established the US Biologics Business Unit and relaunched its lead product, Omnitrope, a human growth hormone. Prior to Sandoz, Dr. Castagna held a variety of positions with EMD (Merck), Serono, Pharmasset and DuPont Pharmaceuticals. Dr. Castagna received his Bachelors of Science - Pharmacy degree from Philadelphia College of Pharmacy, his Doctor of Pharmacy from Massachusetts College of Pharmacy, and his MBA from the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania.
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Post by phdedieu12 on Jan 30, 2023 18:17:16 GMT -5
You misunderstood. I was not saying they need to be more persistent. I was saying they would benefit from sayhey24's unquenchable enthusiasm, his knowledge and passion. I think its amusing that you "tolerate" drug reps. So very generous of you. Yeah…that’s appalling. There’s so many things wrong here. I’m not sure if it’s just stevil, the office he works at or just the entire medical machine. I do know plenty of people who appreciate friendly, knowledgeable drug reps. They can be a tremendous asset. At least stevil has time for strangers on proboards though, eh? There are a lot of people with a lot of free time to spend on proboards. I hope their portfolio only has 27 shares of MNKD and nothing else or it must take a lot of time sharing their enlightened thoughts and knowledge and enthusiasm on multiple boards. Some of those posts are so long I can't even find time to read them, even less to respond. |
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Post by stevil on Jan 30, 2023 18:29:02 GMT -5
@sayhey I was initially talking to prc who said we need a more persistent and better sales team. Doctors aren’t unlike anyone else. Who likes having door to door salespeople show up at their house all the time? Or telemarketers blowing up your phone? The only reason we tolerate them at all (the vast majority of the time, if not completely) is because of the quid pro quo food they bring. They take care of our office staff with goodies, I give you an ear for a few minutes. We’re too busy during the daytime to entertain company. I barely talk to my wife during the day. Why would I spend that time with a stranger? I agree the issue is with leadership. You also can’t legally say anything that’s not in the literature. You can point to individual studies, but again, this stuff takes a long time, which is why we’re handed printed materials. To keep things concise and highlight the key memorable points when the salespeople are gone. You misunderstood. I was not saying they need to be more persistent. I was saying they would benefit from sayhey24's unquenchable enthusiasm, his knowledge and passion. I think its amusing that you "tolerate" drug reps. So very generous of you. New reps that present a new product you don’t care about? Absolutely. This is why relationships matter so much in sales. Unless you are a rep or watch the QVC channel all day long, I think the vast majority of people can relate. Doctors, based on the experience I have had (and I have been through more than a handful of offices in my training) don’t really want to sit and chat with drug reps unless they already know and like them or if they have a particularly interesting product to sell. You have a schedule to keep, you’re frequently running behind, and you just want a few quiet moments in your day to enjoy a peaceful meal. There were a couple amazing physicians I worked with, older and on their way out, that we’re great with relationships. They’d take time to sit and talk to the reps. Generally, if you’re not busy enough to have enough time to waste chit chatting, you’re not working hard enough. Doctors aren’t going to want to give up time they could be getting paid to sit and have a meal with a stranger. All that to say, having an established relationship as a rep might give you an honest chance to have an attentive ear, but then you hand out information that has an n of 24 and expect to be taken seriously? You might get one or two tries at prescribing if you’re a liked rep, but then you realize there are no dosing instructions, and the ones you do have lead to inferior results. It’s just not a recipe for success. MNKD is handing their reps a pool noodle then sending them into a gun fight. |
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Post by phdedieu12 on Jan 30, 2023 18:48:23 GMT -5
You misunderstood. I was not saying they need to be more persistent. I was saying they would benefit from sayhey24's unquenchable enthusiasm, his knowledge and passion. I think its amusing that you "tolerate" drug reps. So very generous of you. New reps that present a new product you don’t care about? Absolutely. This is why relationships matter so much in sales. Unless you are a rep or watch the QVC channel all day long, I think the vast majority of people can relate. Doctors, based on the experience I have had (and I have been through more than a handful of offices in my training) don’t really want to sit and chat with drug reps unless they already know and like them or if they have a particularly interesting product to sell. You have a schedule to keep, you’re frequently running behind, and you just want a few quiet moments in your day to enjoy a peaceful meal. There were a couple amazing physicians I worked with, older and on their way out, that we’re great with relationships. They’d take time to sit and talk to the reps. Generally, if you’re not busy enough to have enough time to waste chit chatting, you’re not working hard enough. Doctors aren’t going to want to give up time they could be getting paid to sit and have a meal with a stranger. All that to say, having an established relationship as a rep might give you an honest chance to have an attentive ear, but then you hand out information that has an n of 24 and expect to be taken seriously? You might get one or two tries at prescribing if you’re a liked rep, but then you realize there are no dosing instructions, and the ones you do have lead to inferior results. It’s just not a recipe for success. MNKD is handing their reps a pool noodle then sending them into a gun fight. When you're about to go bankrupt, no one (good) will work for you. If you think that Mannkind had any ability to get the best talent you need to rethink that. Especially in sales, where most of your income is commission. There are literally ZERO incentive for great sales people to work for you. Things will improve... |
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 30, 2023 18:58:51 GMT -5
New reps that present a new product you don’t care about? Absolutely. This is why relationships matter so much in sales. Unless you are a rep or watch the QVC channel all day long, I think the vast majority of people can relate. Doctors, based on the experience I have had (and I have been through more than a handful of offices in my training) don’t really want to sit and chat with drug reps unless they already know and like them or if they have a particularly interesting product to sell. You have a schedule to keep, you’re frequently running behind, and you just want a few quiet moments in your day to enjoy a peaceful meal. There were a couple amazing physicians I worked with, older and on their way out, that we’re great with relationships. They’d take time to sit and talk to the reps. Generally, if you’re not busy enough to have enough time to waste chit chatting, you’re not working hard enough. Doctors aren’t going to want to give up time they could be getting paid to sit and have a meal with a stranger. All that to say, having an established relationship as a rep might give you an honest chance to have an attentive ear, but then you hand out information that has an n of 24 and expect to be taken seriously? You might get one or two tries at prescribing if you’re a liked rep, but then you realize there are no dosing instructions, and the ones you do have lead to inferior results. It’s just not a recipe for success. MNKD is handing their reps a pool noodle then sending them into a gun fight. When you're about to go bankrupt, no one (good) will work for you. If you think that Mannkind had any ability to get the best talent you need to rethink that. Especially in sales, where most of your income is commission. There are literally ZERO incentive for great sales people to work for you. Things will improve... I am not sure Stevil had graduated back in the days when MNKD was going bankrupt. They are not now and will not be any day soon. So are you saying we are hiring the bottom of the barrel sales reps when we have the greatest diabetes product since Banting and Best and we need reps who really understand diabetes and can go toe to toe with these doctors who are and should be challenging everything you say? Who is hiring them? Mike came to MNKD when no one seemed to want the job. Are you saying we did not get the best talent? |
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Post by phdedieu12 on Jan 30, 2023 19:04:25 GMT -5
When you're about to go bankrupt, no one (good) will work for you. If you think that Mannkind had any ability to get the best talent you need to rethink that. Especially in sales, where most of your income is commission. There are literally ZERO incentive for great sales people to work for you. Things will improve... I am not sure Stevil had graduated back in the days when MNKD was going bankrupt. They are not now and will not be any day soon. So are you saying we are hiring the bottom of the barrel sales reps when we have the greatest diabetes product since Banting and Best and we need reps who really understand diabetes and can go toe to toe with these doctors who are and should be challenging everything you say? Who is hiring them? Mike came to MNKD when no one seemed to want the job. Are you saying we did not get the best talent? Send your application in! You have great ideas, go make a difference, get off the side lines and go show us what this company could be, I know Mannkind is hiring and after reading your posts and some of the opinions of your fellow board members, you can do it! Let's see how amazing you are, I believe in you! |
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 30, 2023 19:05:50 GMT -5
You misunderstood. I was not saying they need to be more persistent. I was saying they would benefit from sayhey24's unquenchable enthusiasm, his knowledge and passion. I think its amusing that you "tolerate" drug reps. So very generous of you. New reps that present a new product you don’t care about? Absolutely. This is why relationships matter so much in sales. Unless you are a rep or watch the QVC channel all day long, I think the vast majority of people can relate. Doctors, based on the experience I have had (and I have been through more than a handful of offices in my training) don’t really want to sit and chat with drug reps unless they already know and like them or if they have a particularly interesting product to sell. You have a schedule to keep, you’re frequently running behind, and you just want a few quiet moments in your day to enjoy a peaceful meal. There were a couple amazing physicians I worked with, older and on their way out, that we’re great with relationships. They’d take time to sit and talk to the reps. Generally, if you’re not busy enough to have enough time to waste chit chatting, you’re not working hard enough. Doctors aren’t going to want to give up time they could be getting paid to sit and have a meal with a stranger. All that to say, having an established relationship as a rep might give you an honest chance to have an attentive ear, but then you hand out information that has an n of 24 and expect to be taken seriously? You might get one or two tries at prescribing if you’re a liked rep, but then you realize there are no dosing instructions, and the ones you do have lead to inferior results. It’s just not a recipe for success. MNKD is handing their reps a pool noodle then sending them into a gun fight. I sure hope Mike is reading your posts and taking them to heart. If not I sure hope someone is sending them to him and he fixes what you are seeing. For starters they should be getting the lunches going. Nothing like some good chinese food with a lot of white rice to pop the PPG. A live "Seeing is Believing" demo during the lunch might get some attention. At least we now know what they did not spend the $6M on during the campaign, lunch. |
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Post by stevil on Jan 30, 2023 19:12:16 GMT -5
They very well might be bringing food. I don’t know for sure. The doctors before me at my practice vetoed reps so I’m not even able to have them come to my office. I’ve requested a rep both times. I initiated the contact.
I may have misunderstood the answer when I asked it. My rep says he drives around and essentially cold calls offices and just shows up to see if he can get face time.
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Post by lennymnkd on Jan 30, 2023 19:33:00 GMT -5
Somebody is seeing somebody , there’s billions upon billions of dollars at stake ….
Otherwise how are they getting to prescribe it …
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Post by phdedieu12 on Jan 30, 2023 19:41:14 GMT -5
Have no fear, Sayhey is sending his resume in and I'll push for Mike and Stuart to hire him, he's going to show those clowns how to sell Afrezza
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 30, 2023 19:46:49 GMT -5
I am not sure Stevil had graduated back in the days when MNKD was going bankrupt. They are not now and will not be any day soon. So are you saying we are hiring the bottom of the barrel sales reps when we have the greatest diabetes product since Banting and Best and we need reps who really understand diabetes and can go toe to toe with these doctors who are and should be challenging everything you say? Who is hiring them? Mike came to MNKD when no one seemed to want the job. Are you saying we did not get the best talent? Send your application in! You have great ideas, go make a difference, get off the side lines and go show us what this company could be, I know Mannkind is hiring and after reading your posts and some of the opinions of your fellow board members, you can do it! Let's see how amazing you are, I believe in you! I thought that's why we hired Mike? Aren't we paying this guy a lot of money and stock. He needs to get'er done or get moving. That's business, nothing personal. You are saying we hired bottom of the barrel and Stevil says in not so many words the reps lack leadership. Now you want me to step in for free and do Mike's job? Free is not happening but a lot of warrants might. BTW - at least in my own mind I am still pretty amazing but I am not getting any younger but thanks for believing in me. I am not "filling out" an application but Mike has my number if he wants me to come out of retirement and bring my megaphone and ladder to San Diego in June and do some "Seeing is Believing" demos which don't cost $6M. |
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