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Post by ktim on Mar 1, 2023 17:16:37 GMT -5
They likely see a goldmine in Mounjaro for weight loss.
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Post by sayhey24 on Mar 1, 2023 18:02:00 GMT -5
They likely see a goldmine in Mounjaro for weight loss. Did you notice they did not cut the price for Basaglar or Lyumjev? Mounjaro, as predicted on this board is kicking butt. I would like to see tirzepatide put on Technosphere. Are they trying to corner the basal and RAA market and then discontinue the older insulins? Or, are they cutting the legs off of congress which is still trying to push a $35 cap on all insulin like they did for Medicare? If thats it I think they have succeeded. Maybe both. |
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Post by lennymnkd on Mar 1, 2023 18:09:29 GMT -5
Watch the link I posted from CNBC … LILLY CEO
HELPS EXPLAIN .
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Post by sayhey24 on Mar 1, 2023 18:51:26 GMT -5
Watch the link I posted from CNBC … LILLY CEO HELPS EXPLAIN . I watched it - thanks. As I said they did not cut the price on their new insulins only the old ones. I also saw Biden's Tweet so I think Lilly's CEO may have gotten Congress off his back. The general public including congress thinks insulin is insulin. I know my Vet likes to use Basaglar for her diabetic dogs but she will be happy with $35 Lantus until its phased out. |
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 1, 2023 22:18:38 GMT -5
Lilly are making money even with the $35 cap. To put this in perspective the UK NHS pays $35 for a box of 5 pens. That would last me for a couple of months. Outside the US nobody pays anywhere near what we pay here. All they have done really is bring the price closer to where it is in every other country.
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limo
Researcher
Posts: 82
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Post by limo on Mar 2, 2023 3:16:06 GMT -5
Sorry no the US is their largest market for insulin Limo, may I please ask with statements like this please post the financial page and the quarterly filing in support. I assume you are referring to NVO and Sanofi? ![]() cant work out how to drop a picture in, but the financial highlights section show North America representing 52% of sales & Growth. Basically LLY and NOVOs are the same size and share the diabetes and obesity mkt globally. |
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Post by peppy on Mar 2, 2023 3:58:46 GMT -5
Limo, may I please ask with statements like this please post the financial page and the quarterly filing in support. I assume you are referring to NVO and Sanofi? ![]() cant work out how to drop a picture in, but the financial highlights section show North America representing 52% of sales & Growth. Basically LLY and NOVOs are the same size and share the diabetes and obesity mkt globally. 52% sales and growth in North America. www.novonordisk.com/investors/annual-report.htmlExplore financials Strategic Aspirations 2025 1. Deliver solid sales and operating profit growth: – Deliver 6-10% sales growth in International Operations – Transform 70% of sales in the US (from 2015 to 2022) 2. Drive operational efficiencies across the value chain to enable investments in future growth assets |
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Post by akemp3000 on Mar 2, 2023 6:49:18 GMT -5
Another angle to the current chaos in the diabetes and insulin market is that more eyes from industry thought leaders will be focused on solution options and opportunities for change. Lilly's move forces BPs to take a new and hard look at the near future. IMO, the timing is good and should work to Mannkind and Afrezza's advantage.
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Post by sayhey24 on Mar 2, 2023 7:44:07 GMT -5
Another angle to the current chaos in the diabetes and insulin market is that more eyes from industry thought leaders will be focused on solution options and opportunities for change. Lilly's move forces BPs to take a new and hard look at the near future. IMO, the timing is good and should work to Mannkind and Afrezza's advantage. Here is the issue - insulin causes hypos so doctors will do whatever they can not to prescribe it for as long as they can. For the T1s they have no choice but for the T2s they delay delay and delay some more. What I am not clear on is did Lilly cut the price for insulin forms "vial and pen" or just "vial"? Everything I see only mentions "vial". For basal and rapid acting under Medicare the answer is going to be Lilly for form "vial". For form "pen" that will depend on if they cut the price there. For form "inhaled", thats afrezza. The thing is when we talk afrezza everyone thinks of it as insulin. Its is nothing like subq insulin and that is the marketing challenge Mike has. He needs to get doctors to think of it as a totally new type of treatment which may contain insulin but is nothing like insulin. Calling the cartridges "units" of course does not help. He needs to get them to think of it as the non-hypo super glucose buster. If Mike can do that then this should be a great "opportunity for change" especially if we can get it as an adder to GLP1s. Mike needs to get that study going asap. I see the Lilly move as something which should help MNKD reps as Lilly won't be hounding the doctors and buying them lunch to prescribe their subq insulins. Then again if its only for vials then they will still be pushing pens. This should help with the T1s where at a minimum afrezza can be targeted as an add-on rescue tool. |
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 2, 2023 8:08:09 GMT -5
... What I am not clear on is did Lilly cut the price for insulin forms "vial and pen" or just "vial"? Everything I see only mentions "vial". For basal and rapid acting under Medicare the answer is going to be Lilly for form "vial". For form "pen" that will depend on if they cut the price there. For form "inhaled", thats afrezza. The thing is when we talk afrezza everyone thinks of it as insulin. Its is nothing like subq insulin and that is the marketing challenge Mike has. He needs to get doctors to think of it as a totally new type of treatment which may contain insulin but is nothing like insulin. ... It's both, but initially it's only their generic lispro product which is really Humalog (the packaging is the only difference). Towards the end of the year they will apply this to Humalog as well. I suspect that they have supply agreements for Humalog that need to time out. Mike's problem isn't getting doctors to think of Afrezza as a new type of treatment, it's getting the FDA to do that which I think is impossible. It's insulin and the FDA won't move off that. Remember the reps are constrained in what they can say by the FDA rules. |
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 2, 2023 8:20:46 GMT -5
Another angle to the current chaos in the diabetes and insulin market is that more eyes from industry thought leaders will be focused on solution options and opportunities for change. Lilly's move forces BPs to take a new and hard look at the near future. IMO, the timing is good and should work to Mannkind and Afrezza's advantage. I think this is absolutely correct. Lilly have basically decided that the insane price for insulin in this country isn't worth the political damage and bad publicity it attracts. They split the RAA market with NVO and the market is stable. What they have done is drop the price to where it is the same as in the rest of the world so they are still making money. Having done that they can focus marketing on GLP-1 and SGLT2 which already make far more money than insulin. Does this benefit Mannkind? I think it's a double edged sword. I can see the insulin market being neglected by BP now the margins are where they should be which should make it easier for the Mannkind reps (not as aggressive competition). The flip side is that Mannkind may well need to match this or be priced out of the market and that will hurt revenue. I think a lot depends on what NVO does. |
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Post by pbaumgarten on Mar 6, 2023 23:22:54 GMT -5
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Post by peppy on Mar 7, 2023 2:26:51 GMT -5
I believe you are correct. People with insurance will co-pay 35 dollars, insurance will pay out and get rebates. Nothing has changed on the insurance front. The uninsured have a website and a process for 35 dollar a month insulin, Humalog. ( regular insulin can be bought at Walmart for 35 dollars a vial) Medicare part D will cover Humalog insulin at 35 dollars month. Afrezza should be status quo. lennymnkd wrote, " The vendors are not supplying all these insulins for $35. They are supplying them at whatever their price is - it could be $1000 for a box of afrezza. CMS through the bid process is picking up the cost for the Plan D insurers. The U.S. tax payers are picking up the cost. So pharma is being subsidized… we had this discussion " Of topic side note, NVO made a new 52 week high today. |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Mar 7, 2023 7:11:20 GMT -5
Been having the same thoughts. Not a huge surprise. Just the usual opportunistic raid. Actual business impacts (I assume some) to be determined. Since it isn’t a huge surprise (more of a when, not if), I am curious what MNKD management think. I’m not a huge “transparency” advocate necessarily, but it would be good to learn what reaction to Eli Lilly’s action there is or will be (if any).
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