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Post by lennymnkd on Jun 8, 2023 20:22:13 GMT -5
No injections … better performance..avoids first pass hepatic metabolism.. less drug .. less I’ll feeling.
dosing regime to be determined
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Post by agedhippie on Jun 8, 2023 21:31:10 GMT -5
No injections … better performance..avoids first pass hepatic metabolism.. less drug .. less I’ll feeling. dosing regime to be determined I agree on no injections, and am not sure why injected GLP-1 has a first pass hepatic metabolism but inhaled GLP-1 doesn't (genuinely, I don't know why they would differ). Everything else needs to be proven beyond a single shot of a GLP-1 (not GLP-1 analog like all the versions on the market) which is all the data we have at the moment. |
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Post by lennymnkd on Jun 9, 2023 6:52:19 GMT -5
Technosphere would seem to at least provide better control dosing with ease of use .
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Post by peppy on Jun 9, 2023 6:59:19 GMT -5
Technosphere would seem to at least provide better control dosing with ease of use . GLP-1 extended half life version does not require central dosing. It requires the slow go. Leaching..... it leaches into the capillaries. |
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Post by lennymnkd on Jun 9, 2023 7:03:22 GMT -5
Yes but considering adverse side effects we have been discussing ( nausea) ect.
I was thinking adjusted doses would help
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Post by sayhey24 on Jun 9, 2023 7:36:35 GMT -5
Drugs like Danuglipron and Rybelsus are oral meds, they are pills. A TS GLP-1 would be an inhaled drug which is completely different class. No pharma is going to show interest this side of a Phase 2 trial because they want to be sure the side effects are really gone. Pfizer would be a nice partner, but the question is if they have got over their last attempt to convert an injectable to inhaled (Exubera) Aged - I am not a chemist but I would think our team at MNKD can figure out how to load both of Pfizer's glp-1r molecules on technosphere. If not I think someone from RLS is still hanging around and may be able to do some consulting. Albert wouldn't get a pill but he would remove the needle. The funny thing is, a while back I had the opportunity to spend some time with the lead chemist on Exubera. He thought if it were not for afrezza, Exubera would have been a blockbuster. He had nothing but great things to say about afrezza. The good news is Albert is not Ollie Brandicourt. I also think Albert might just know Mike so who knows. Whats the risk to Pfizer to give it a try? Whats $10M to give it a try if its really a $90B market? I would run the inhaled development in parallel to the pill. The side effects may be completely different and for such a small cost and huge market opportunity no one with Albert's resource would do this serially. He also needs to fill the Covid-19 hole asap. The daunuglipron pill has similar issues that oral insulin has - the GI tract and the GI tract will win the war. I am pretty sure TS could be the solution here just like it was for insulin. For the diet market with the right marketing "inhaling" could be sold as being sexier than just taking the pill and without the belly ache. They could also make a pretty box. The great news too is, Mike has a new phone. |
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Post by lennymnkd on Jun 9, 2023 8:01:09 GMT -5
. For the diet market with the right marketing "inhaling" could be sold as being sexier than just taking the pill and without the belly ache. They could also make a pretty box. The great news too is, Mike has a new phone.
Ahh ! Marketing a novel idea. 👍
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Post by uvula on Jun 9, 2023 8:08:51 GMT -5
Who is Albert? Thank you.
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Post by sayhey24 on Jun 9, 2023 8:12:28 GMT -5
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Post by agedhippie on Jun 9, 2023 9:28:58 GMT -5
Aged - I am not a chemist but I would think our team at MNKD can figure out how to load both of Pfizer's glp-1r molecules on technosphere. If not I think someone from RLS is still hanging around and may be able to do some consulting. Albert wouldn't get a pill but he would remove the needle. The funny thing is, a while back I had the opportunity to spend some time with the lead chemist on Exubera. He thought if it were not for afrezza, Exubera would have been a blockbuster. He had nothing but great things to say about afrezza. ... I wouldn't think it was difficult to load the Pfizer GLP-1 on TS, but that assumes Pfizer want to do that. My guess given the track record of inhaled insulin it's unlikely. Pfizer are focused on a pill (oral) which is what they already have. That lead chemist should revisit his timelines if he wants to blame Afrezza for Exubera's failure. Exubera was withdrawn in 2007, Afrezza didn't launch for another eight years in 2015. Exubera failed for several reasons, but the chief reason was they over-priced it so national health systems rejected it (higher cost for no tangible benefit), and US insurance cover was awful. Next up would be the bong and not using standard units (they used mg, why?) It's not something I ever used, but I know people who tried it. Everyone expects GLP-1 to come with GI issues, although GLP-1/GIP combinations have less so it's easier to accept those and rely on the pill as the driver. Last month 2.5M people were prepared to overlook the GI issues so there is a strong temptation to say why change. That's before we even address the issue of whether or not the GI issues go away if you use GLP-1 analogs. You are asking Pfizer to gamble against their own product, we saw with Sanofi how that ends. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Jun 9, 2023 10:02:32 GMT -5
Ha! "That lead chemist should revisit his timelines if he wants to blame Afrezza for Exubera's failure. Exubera was withdrawn in 2007, Afrezza didn't launch for another eight years in 2015" Go back and just look at the historical pps for MNKD in 2007 when the Exubera "cancer scare" was announced. He believed if Exubera made the market for inhaled insulin, afrezza was just so much better it would have then stole the market.
Is he correct, IDK but it makes sense. The entire industry threw not only the kitchen sink at afrezza after the Exubera withdrawal but everything else they had. The industry was able to string this out until 2014 approval with help from guys like Pharma Bro. Without the public Adcom afrezza would have gotten another CRL. They did succeed in poising the water for inhaled drugs. IMO it took covid to make "inhaling" a desired option again. Good news for MNKD is Tyvaso DPI has proven the power of technosphere.
If everyone expects glp-1s to come with GI issues and Peter Richardson was correct maybe we have a surprise for "everyone". Just think if you got 2.5M to use a glp-1 diet drug while throwing up. How many more can you get with no needles and much less nausea? Albert says $90B. For a proof of concept $10-$20M sounds like round off for Pfizer if the market really is this big. Thanks to the TikToc it sure seems it is.
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Post by agedhippie on Jun 9, 2023 10:03:02 GMT -5
If MNKD actually want to produce an inhaled GLP-1 then they can do it now. The patent on liraglutide (Victoza) expires this year and a generic is expected next year (at least two pharmas are lining up for this.) That will provide MNKD with a source of the API which they can then load onto TS.
Of course they will still need to prove that you can take it more than once and still have no side effects, and compare effectiveness to one of the GLP-1 analog with Victoza as the likely candidate. Then there is question of funding, nobody is going to touch it this side of the data from that phase 2 trial, and then the time to market because you don't want to launch and be a couple of generations behind the market (try selling human insulin today, it sells on price but it's a fraction of the RAA market)
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Post by lennymnkd on Jun 9, 2023 11:27:09 GMT -5
The most common side effects of Victoza® may include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, indigestion, and constipation. Talk to your health care provider about any side effect that bothers you or does not go away. These are not all the possible side effects of Victoza®.
Does having to take it daily become more of a burden ?
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Post by peppy on Jun 9, 2023 11:32:28 GMT -5
Aged - I am not a chemist but I would think our team at MNKD can figure out how to load both of Pfizer's glp-1r molecules on technosphere. If not I think someone from RLS is still hanging around and may be able to do some consulting. Albert wouldn't get a pill but he would remove the needle. The funny thing is, a while back I had the opportunity to spend some time with the lead chemist on Exubera. He thought if it were not for afrezza, Exubera would have been a blockbuster. He had nothing but great things to say about afrezza. ... I wouldn't think it was difficult to load the Pfizer GLP-1 on TS, but that assumes Pfizer want to do that. My guess given the track record of inhaled insulin it's unlikely. Pfizer are focused on a pill (oral) which is what they already have. That lead chemist should revisit his timelines if he wants to blame Afrezza for Exubera's failure. Exubera was withdrawn in 2007, Afrezza didn't launch for another eight years in 2015. Exubera failed for several reasons, but the chief reason was they over-priced it so national health systems rejected it (higher cost for no tangible benefit), and US insurance cover was awful. Next up would be the bong and not using standard units (they used mg, why?) It's not something I ever used, but I know people who tried it. Everyone expects GLP-1 to come with GI issues, although GLP-1/GIP combinations have less so it's easier to accept those and rely on the pill as the driver. Last month 2.5M people were prepared to overlook the GI issues so there is a strong temptation to say why change. That's before we even address the issue of whether or not the GI issues go away if you use GLP-1 analogs. You are asking Pfizer to gamble against their own product, we saw with Sanofi how that ends. Seems to me we have a BUNCH of men discussing what women will do to lose weight or what women will do to lose weight easily. They will endure constipation, that's for sure. Vomitting, well they didn't intend to vomit like an anorexic. Look at it this way, we girls are all princesses and ....... Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't take the self, however.... |
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Post by lennymnkd on Jun 9, 2023 11:58:25 GMT -5
Lot of money in this if we can get it right..
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