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Post by anderson on Sept 6, 2024 19:29:43 GMT -5
Agree with you sayhey. Based on Mike’s track record of going it alone, if MNKD ever does it again I hope there’s someone else at the helm for it. For sure we got the short end of the stick on the royalty with UTHR but I don’t blame mike for that because he was up against a superior negotiator who had the leverage advantage. IMO he did the right thing just taking the deal, rather than risking it going to our competitor. His comments about the deal are indeed revealing and I don’t blame him for not wanting a repeat. It’s a conundrum, but actually it’s the kind of conundrum we want to have and I wish we’d had more of them by now. Thanks aged for the recap! I think we first need to thank Steve Binder and all he did to keep the doors open and the lights on including helping to close the UTHR deal. Things were really really bad 6 years ago. MNKD had no money and Mike had ZERO leverage. IMO Martine threw Mike a lifeline and cut a really nice deal for MNKD - "for the time". Martine could have and maybe should have picked up MNKD for pennies at the time. I just hope with all these additional R&D resources we can get a 2nd molecule with UTHR up and going ASAP - but under a better royalty deal. During the call Mike also spent some time talking how great TS is and its deep lung penetration. I thought Mike did the Pulmatrix deal because they wanted to use their powder with clofazimine but I got the impression that may not be the case and now the justification is we got a new lab where none of our scientists live. Mike also mentioned in the Wells Fargo conference at 6:43 info about DPI for clofazimine. "We have a couple of candidates and need to make a decision very quickly on which one to pick." Nebulized was fastest to market. He also talked of bridge trials later. |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Sept 7, 2024 10:53:37 GMT -5
I’m curious about the benefit of DPI versus nebulized. I’d like Mike to explain that some time. I assume UTHR is or will highlight the difference once Yutrepia is finally able to be sold.
Regarding Mike’s speaking style. I agree that a few private lessons with a speaking coach would be helpful. (Reminds me of “The King’s Speech”. - Great movie.)
Regarding Mike’s apparent weariness and tenure. He has always seemed to me to be exhausted. 7 years tenure for a CEO? Tell it to the Berkshire-Hathaway investors (or APP or TSLA). I’d say Mike’s probably already put in about 14 years of manhours. God bless him and Stephen Binder, we’re still here and things are looking up.
I’ll need to listen to the Wells Fargo recording. A friend of mine that first made me aware of MannKind thought it was good too. I’m not at all surprised to hear Mike’s got scars from the UTHR deal for Tyvaso DPI. I’ll speculate he would have been perfectly happy to have MNKD pushing $100 by now (and considering early retirement). And seeing what Martine has done to LQDA and knowing the price for MNKD would have been a low lowball, MannKind management made the best deal they could, and it has worked out well, but nintedanib doesn’t have to follow the same track. I’m still fine with another partnership, and prefer that to a buyout, or a delay of revenue from legal maneuvers ala UTHR vs LQDA. But, to Mike’s point, and with all due respect to UTHR and Martine, it should not be a repeat of the Tyvaso DPI deal.
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Post by letitride on Sept 7, 2024 23:05:07 GMT -5
The Wells Fargo conference starting at the 30:30 min point Mike goes into how for large trials there are plenty of people willing to share the cost. And that nintedanib was so big there is room for sharing but hes not going to give it away. Sounds to me with the prior direct questions pertaining to efficacy, tolerability, and dosing someone has more than a passive interest in getting in on this with Mannkind. Sounded like there may be more than one courter looking for a piece of nintedanib.
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Post by radgray68 on Sept 9, 2024 11:19:13 GMT -5
It most certainly does sound like we have possible partners in the background. If you’re going to partner for a drug, and needed to estimate its future worth, wouldn’t you want your best numbers guy on it? Maybe keep him on for “Special Projects” while getting the drug to phase 2/3?
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Post by Thundersnow on Sept 9, 2024 11:25:45 GMT -5
The Wells Fargo conference starting at the 30:30 min point Mike goes into how for large trials there are plenty of people willing to share the cost. And that nintedanib was so big there is room for sharing but hes not going to give it away. Sounds to me with the prior direct questions pertaining to efficacy, tolerability, and dosing someone has more than a passive interest in getting in on this with Mannkind. Sounded like there may be more than one courter looking for a piece of nintedanib. I bet it will be Boehringer. They have the most to lose. I wouldn't put it pass Mike to entertain UTHR as a partner. This will give them leverage with B-I. The PIE is bug for a partner and if MNKD get get a good upfront w/ decent royalties AND have them pay for the TRIALS? That's a HOMERUN! |
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Post by cjm18 on Sept 9, 2024 12:29:26 GMT -5
The Wells Fargo conference starting at the 30:30 min point Mike goes into how for large trials there are plenty of people willing to share the cost. And that nintedanib was so big there is room for sharing but hes not going to give it away. Sounds to me with the prior direct questions pertaining to efficacy, tolerability, and dosing someone has more than a passive interest in getting in on this with Mannkind. Sounded like there may be more than one courter looking for a piece of nintedanib. I bet it will be Boehringer. They have the most to lose. I wouldn't put it pass Mike to entertain UTHR as a partner. This will give them leverage with B-I. The PIE is bug for a partner and if MNKD get get a good upfront w/ decent royalties AND have them pay for the TRIALS? That's a HOMERUN! ### Likely candidates: 1. **United Therapeutics**: MannKind already has a successful partnership with United Therapeutics for **Tyvaso DPI**, and this collaboration has been a significant revenue driver. Given their established relationship and United’s focus on pulmonary arterial hypertension (PAH) and lung diseases, they are a strong candidate for extending the partnership to MNKD-101 and MNKD-201 [oai_citation:4,MannKind’s Strong Q2 Performance and Promising Pipeline Merit a Buy Rating | Markets Insider](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/mannkind-s-strong-q2-performance-and-promising-pipeline-merit-a-buy-rating-1033669041) [oai_citation:3,MannKind (NASDAQ:MNKD) Receives New Coverage from Analysts at Leerink Partners](https://www.marketbeat.com/instant-alerts/nasdaq-mnkd-initiated-coverage-2024-09-09/). 2. **Insmed Incorporated**: Insmed is a biotech company specializing in rare pulmonary diseases, particularly NTM lung infections, which aligns well with MNKD-101’s target indication. Their experience with inhaled therapies like Arikayce could make them a good fit for collaboration [oai_citation:2,MannKind Analyst Turns Bullish, Says 'Don't Call It Comeback' | Markets Insider](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/mannkind-analyst-turns-bullish-says-don-t-call-it-comeback-1032693576). 3. **Boehringer Ingelheim**: With a strong respiratory portfolio, including therapies for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis (IPF), Boehringer Ingelheim could be a natural partner for MNKD-201. Their existing product **Ofev** (nintedanib) targets IPF, making them familiar with the therapy and its potential [oai_citation:1,MannKind Analyst Turns Bullish, Says 'Don't Call It Comeback' | Markets Insider](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/mannkind-analyst-turns-bullish-says-don-t-call-it-comeback-1032693576). 4. **Vertex Pharmaceuticals**: Known for its work in cystic fibrosis and other severe lung conditions, Vertex has expertise in developing inhaled therapies and could be interested in expanding its respiratory portfolio through MNKD-101 or MNKD-201 partnerships. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Sept 9, 2024 12:41:44 GMT -5
I’m curious about the benefit of DPI versus nebulized. I’d like Mike to explain that some time. I assume UTHR is or will highlight the difference once Yutrepia is finally able to be sold. Regarding Mike’s speaking style. I agree that a few private lessons with a speaking coach would be helpful. (Reminds me of “The King’s Speech”. - Great movie.) Regarding Mike’s apparent weariness and tenure. He has always seemed to me to be exhausted. 7 years tenure for a CEO? Tell it to the Berkshire-Hathaway investors (or APP or TSLA). I’d say Mike’s probably already put in about 14 years of manhours. God bless him and Stephen Binder, we’re still here and things are looking up. I’ll need to listen to the Wells Fargo recording. A friend of mine that first made me aware of MannKind thought it was good too. I’m not at all surprised to hear Mike’s got scars from the UTHR deal for Tyvaso DPI. I’ll speculate he would have been perfectly happy to have MNKD pushing $100 by now (and considering early retirement). And seeing what Martine has done to LQDA and knowing the price for MNKD would have been a low lowball, MannKind management made the best deal they could, and it has worked out well, but nintedanib doesn’t have to follow the same track. I’m still fine with another partnership, and prefer that to a buyout, or a delay of revenue from legal maneuvers ala UTHR vs LQDA. But, to Mike’s point, and with all due respect to UTHR and Martine, it should not be a repeat of the Tyvaso DPI deal. In summary TS provides deep lung penetration. It is estimated that the adult human lung has on the order of 300 million alveoli, with a total surface for 2 about the area approximately the size of a tennis court. Thats a pretty big area for drug absorption. The thing is the nebulizers are not great getting things into the deep lung. I think you will find TS and its high resistance inhaler provides better deep lung penetration than Yutrepia. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1884297/ |
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Post by sayhey24 on Sept 9, 2024 12:47:58 GMT -5
The Wells Fargo conference starting at the 30:30 min point Mike goes into how for large trials there are plenty of people willing to share the cost. And that nintedanib was so big there is room for sharing but hes not going to give it away. Sounds to me with the prior direct questions pertaining to efficacy, tolerability, and dosing someone has more than a passive interest in getting in on this with Mannkind. Sounded like there may be more than one courter looking for a piece of nintedanib. I bet it will be Boehringer. They have the most to lose. I wouldn't put it pass Mike to entertain UTHR as a partner. This will give them leverage with B-I. The PIE is bug for a partner and if MNKD get get a good upfront w/ decent royalties AND have them pay for the TRIALS? That's a HOMERUN! Why would UTHR pass on this given they already have the working relationship with MNKD and are building the new TS factory? IMO, it would probably make sense for UTHR to pay a little more just to keep the exclusive relationship. But who knows. The great thing is unlike 6 years ago MNKD is in a significantly better negotiating position. |
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Post by ktim on Sept 9, 2024 12:48:44 GMT -5
Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner... the millionth post of the surface area of the lungs  But to be more culturally relevant, could you restate that in pickle ball courts. |
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Post by peppy on Sept 9, 2024 13:07:39 GMT -5
Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner... the millionth post of the surface area of the lungs But to be more culturally relevant, could you restate that in pickle ball courts.restated in pickle ball courts = COPD. (the adult human lung has on the order of 300 million alveoli, with a total surface for 2 about the area approximately the size of a tennis court.) |
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Post by Thundersnow on Sept 9, 2024 14:37:35 GMT -5
I bet it will be Boehringer. They have the most to lose. I wouldn't put it pass Mike to entertain UTHR as a partner. This will give them leverage with B-I. The PIE is bug for a partner and if MNKD get get a good upfront w/ decent royalties AND have them pay for the TRIALS? That's a HOMERUN! Why would UTHR pass on this given they already have the working relationship with MNKD and are building the new TS factory? IMO, it would probably make sense for UTHR to pay a little more just to keep the exclusive relationship. But who knows. The great thing is unlike 6 years ago MNKD is in a significantly better negotiating position. I'm pretty sure there will be some backroom dealings over 201. Right now I would say Boehringer has the inside edge - their HQ is literally the next town over from Danbury. They have the franchise in OFEV and I'm not sure if MNKD can use OFEV DPI. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Sept 9, 2024 14:43:17 GMT -5
Why would UTHR pass on this given they already have the working relationship with MNKD and are building the new TS factory? IMO, it would probably make sense for UTHR to pay a little more just to keep the exclusive relationship. But who knows. The great thing is unlike 6 years ago MNKD is in a significantly better negotiating position. I'm pretty sure there will be some backroom dealings over 201. Right now I would say Boehringer has the inside edge - their HQ is literally the next town over from Danbury. They have the franchise in OFEV and I'm not sure if MNKD can use OFEV DPI. Why can't they use Ofev DPI? Ofev's patents will be open to challenges from 06 March, 2026. Mike has already said this would be perfect timing for approval. |
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Post by uvula on Sept 9, 2024 14:45:04 GMT -5
Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner... the millionth post of the surface area of the lungs But to be more culturally relevant, could you restate that in pickle ball courts. This makes sense. People with PAH are much more likely to play pickle ball than tennis. |
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Post by porkini on Sept 9, 2024 15:45:02 GMT -5
Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner... the millionth post of the surface area of the lungs But to be more culturally relevant, could you restate that in pickle ball courts.restated in pickle ball courts = COPD. (the adult human lung has on the order of 300 million alveoli, with a total surface for 2 about the area approximately the size of a tennis court.) But, but, this thing about pickle ball courts, it would depend on whether you are playing singles or doubles, two pair of lungs versus four pair of lungs!  |
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Post by uvula on Sept 9, 2024 18:26:29 GMT -5
Tennis courts Pickle ball courts. Americans will do anything to avoid the metric system.
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