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Post by kc on Feb 12, 2015 13:25:43 GMT -5
Lot of shares changing hands. Hard to tell if they are being sold or purchased. But the size of the blocks are big.  |
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Post by babaoriley on Feb 12, 2015 14:11:42 GMT -5
After trolling this site for close to a year I joined today for the sole purpose of adding to this thread. I have always disliked shorting a stock and have never done it. To me it is tantamount to wishing bad luck on someone. But I am surprised at the number of people in here who have indicated that they allow their shares to be loaned to those who short stocks. To me that is like selling ammunition to your enemy. The little money you gain is more than offset by the harm you are doing to your side. Those who chose to allow their shares to be shorted are harming the majority of us longs for small personal gain. When the stock drops significantly as it is doing today the loss your shares have suffered are more than offset by the small percentage you gained from the loan. If everyone in here who has allowed his shares to be loaned out would terminate the arrangement it might produce a really significant short squeeze. I used to think like you expressed above, rhfil. Especially the thing about being tantamount to wishing bad luck on someone. After a couple of years of investing in biotech (and other things, but biotech is the one that really brings it home), I turned 180 degrees. Let's say a company is trying to develop a treatment for a serious disease. Certainly, that is laudable, but if you feel that they won't be successful, then you really aren't rooting against a successful treatment, you're really saying, "hey, it'd be great if you guys were on to something good, but you're not, and I'm going to make some money here." Why is that a problem? Just because you're long on a company or rooting for it, doesn't make it more likely they will succeed, just as being short does not make it more likely they will fail. Biotechs fail not because people short them or don't believe in them, it's because they have barked up the wrong tree or someone else has beaten them to the punch. And one more thing to consider, there are those companies out there that are trying to develop treatments for serious diseases that at some point realize their hope for success is pretty slim, but they keep going and hyping and presenting and what not, and they entice more investors in, and all the while the execs at those companies are keeping nice jobs at nice salaries. I say that if you can identify such companies, you might make a bit of money, and certainly not on the long side. As far as the whole thing about shorting and loaning shares, etc., there is so much misinformation and conjecture out there, I've stopped trying to even figure it out (which, admittedly, I have not). Suffice to say that those shorts who are organized and well funded, find a way to do what they need to do, regardless of anyone loaning their shares. |
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Post by jimo on Feb 12, 2015 14:50:47 GMT -5
After trolling this site for close to a year I joined today for the sole purpose of adding to this thread. I have always disliked shorting a stock and have never done it. To me it is tantamount to wishing bad luck on someone. But I am surprised at the number of people in here who have indicated that they allow their shares to be loaned to those who short stocks. To me that is like selling ammunition to your enemy. The little money you gain is more than offset by the harm you are doing to your side. Those who chose to allow their shares to be shorted are harming the majority of us longs for small personal gain. When the stock drops significantly as it is doing today the loss your shares have suffered are more than offset by the small percentage you gained from the loan. If everyone in here who has allowed his shares to be loaned out would terminate the arrangement it might produce a really significant short squeeze. I used to think like you expressed above, rhfil. Especially the thing about being tantamount to wishing bad luck on someone. After a couple of years of investing in biotech (and other things, but biotech is the one that really brings it home), I turned 180 degrees. Let's say a company is trying to develop a treatment for a serious disease. Certainly, that is laudable, but if you feel that they won't be successful, then you really aren't rooting against a successful treatment, you're really saying, "hey, it'd be great if you guys were on to something good, but you're not, and I'm going to make some money here." Why is that a problem? Just because you're long on a company or rooting for it, doesn't make it more likely they will succeed, just as being short does not make it more likely they will fail. Biotechs fail not because people short them or don't believe in them, it's because they have barked up the wrong tree or someone else has beaten them to the punch. And one more thing to consider, there are those companies out there that are trying to develop treatments for serious diseases that at some point realize their hope for success is pretty slim, but they keep going and hyping and presenting and what not, and they entice more investors in, and all the while the execs at those companies are keeping nice jobs at nice salaries. I say that if you can identify such companies, you might make a bit of money, and certainly not on the long side. As far as the whole thing about shorting and loaning shares, etc., there is so much misinformation and conjecture out there, I've stopped trying to even figure it out (which, admittedly, I have not). Suffice to say that those shorts who are organized and well funded, find a way to do what they need to do, regardless of anyone loaning their shares. Thank you both for your perspectives as yesterday I received my first email from a VP explaining Fidelity's Fully Paid Lending Program. My shares have been there since Jan 2011 and I've always viewed this as a dance with the devil & shared the beliefs of rhfil. I only started to consider loaning my shares after reading this thread a few days ago and planned to call Fidelity yesterday. I couldn't make up my mind then the email appeared while at dinner last night and I was completely distracted from that point on. As I'm trying to separate my emotions & relationship with MNKD from my investment I'm now seeing why investors choose to loan shares. Still not sure if I'll pull the trigger as I've been scarred by shorts during a 3 year relationship with DNDN (an abusive one which ended well at $50) and now a stormy 4 year deal with MNKD. I appreciate learning from more experienced investors on this board! |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Feb 12, 2015 14:51:26 GMT -5
shortslaver... regarding prescription numbers it is interesting that as of yet I have not been sent any email about Afrezza being available despite having gone onto afrezza.com months ago and signing up to be notified. I wonder if that info was never sent over to Sanofi (I signed up before Sanofi started running the site) and we'll never be notified, or if Sanofi is purposely waiting to notify people that expressed interest. Either way it seems a bit strange. With busy schedules and lives, there may actually be patients that want to try Afrezza and haven't yet learned it is on the market with the assumption they will be sent an email when it is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 18:34:06 GMT -5
Potsandpans, you can use any argument you want to justify loaning out shares to help the shorts but as far as I am concerned they all fail. Anyone who for whatever reason chooses or has to sell their shares now or in the near future will have less money from the sale because some longs chose to help the shorts keep the price down by loaning them their shares. There is an easy way to prove what the impact on loaning shares is. Everyone in here who has agreed to loan out their shares contact their brokerages tomorrow or Monday and stop the loans. Then look at the impact on the share price and the interest rate after one week. If the price and the interest rate are not impacted then those here who do loan out their shares are benefiting without any impact and I will sign up too. If however there is an impact I would hope those who are loaning out their shares would reconsider its impact on the rest of us.
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Post by jimo on Feb 17, 2015 14:04:01 GMT -5
What is their next move? It's clear the short count continues to increase. The only thing that comes to mind is attacking the slow uptake on script writing and lack of advertising in the market which are things we expected early in a controlled launch.
Just trying to understand the short's perspective.
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Post by ashiwi on Feb 17, 2015 14:37:49 GMT -5
Loaning out shares just gives the shorts a rope to strangle themselves.
Ultimately it will be the fundamentals of SNY/MNKD and the amount of RX's written by docs.
MNKD has overcome multiple hurdles over the years. Each step of the way, shorts had the chance to cash in and many made $.
Greed can work on both ends, shorts keep shorting at every new high and longs can average down at every sell off. Sooner or later
someone will benefit and someone will be a loser.
I am in the camp where I believe Afrezza will change the lives for the better of millions of diabetics and reap rewards for SNY, MNKD and long shareholders.
The longs loaning out shares are being rewarded for the wait and act as a tight coil ready to spring when the RX #'s roll in over the next few months going forward.
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Post by jpg on Feb 17, 2015 14:43:28 GMT -5
Loaning out shares just gives the shorts a rope to strangle themselves. Ultimately it will be the fundamentals of SNY/MNKD and the amount of RX's written by docs. MNKD has overcome multiple hurdles over the years. Each step of the way, shorts had the chance to cash in and many made $. Greed can work on both ends, shorts keep shorting at every new high and longs can average down at every sell off. Sooner or later someone will benefit and someone will be a loser. I am in the camp where I believe Afrezza will change the lives for the better of millions of diabetics and reap rewards for SNY, MNKD and long shareholders. The longs loaning out shares are being rewarded for the wait and act as a tight coil ready to spring when the RX #'s roll in over the next few months going forward. It seems I can't lend out my shares from my Canadian bank? Any other Canadians know anything about this? At these rates I could do very well with lending my shares out... |
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Post by doubleo7 on Feb 17, 2015 14:48:57 GMT -5
But you guys know that if your bank/broker goes belly up, your shares are gone ...?
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Post by ashiwi on Feb 17, 2015 14:59:36 GMT -5
I'll take my chances with Fidelity.
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Post by jpg on Feb 17, 2015 15:05:02 GMT -5
The odds of TD, RBC, Bank of NovaScotia going belly up are about zero. Just wished there was a way to lend shares it this theoretically capitalist country called Canada... Again anyone know of any way of doing this in Canada?
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Post by shortslaver on Feb 17, 2015 15:08:37 GMT -5
The odds of TD, RBC, Bank of NovaScotia going belly up are about zero. Just wished there was a way to lend shares it this theoretically capitalist country called Canada... Again anyone know of any way of doing this in Canada? Canadians are too nice to charge interest to the short interest. |
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Post by biotec on Feb 17, 2015 15:13:13 GMT -5
TD doesn't pay for use of shares.
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Post by brentie on Feb 17, 2015 15:15:35 GMT -5
But you guys know that if your bank/broker goes belly up, your shares are gone ...? Fidelity:All loaned securities are secured by collateral provided to you pursuant to the lending agreement executed by you. |
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Post by jpg on Feb 17, 2015 15:22:09 GMT -5
The odds of TD, RBC, Bank of NovaScotia going belly up are about zero. Just wished there was a way to lend shares it this theoretically capitalist country called Canada... Again anyone know of any way of doing this in Canada? Canadians are too nice to charge interest to the short interest. What? The short interest doesn't pay to borrow shares in Canada??? We can't be that nice... |
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