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Post by babaoriley on May 15, 2015 14:57:57 GMT -5
parrerob, "During q1 SI made a huge increase from 75m to 995m." Did you mean 750,000,000, cuz it certainly wasn't 75,000,000.
There's so much gambling on this stock with hedges, straddles, strangles, spreads, whatever, that it's awful hard to figure just who's got or done what.
Liane, LOL, re making the trip to Connecticut. The figure I threw around back in the day was $7 or $8; I think we're going to come up a tad short.
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Post by nemzter on May 15, 2015 15:11:24 GMT -5
MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 2,930 561,914 SH DFND 1 561,914 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 1,021 195,800 SH Put DFND 1 195,800 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 971 186,200 SH Call DFND 1 186,200 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 337 64,599 SH MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 4,415 849,057 SH DFND 1 849,057 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 4,710 905,700 SH Put DFND 1 905,700 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 10,096 1,941,500 SH Call DFND 1 1,941,500 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 133 25,648 SH Goldman Sachs, after a downgrade, accumulates another 40% position, from 627k to 875k shares. Further, they increase their call position by over 1000% from $900k to over $10,000,000 Sorry, not knowing how a call position works, what does this mean? Thanks!
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Post by ezrasfund on May 15, 2015 15:21:04 GMT -5
Folks, with all due respect, there are plenty of good sites on the internet and good books, if you prefer, for investor education. Admittedly options and other financial machinations can be hard to understand, and I still have a lot to learn. But the first place I go for answers to my questions is Investopedia and similar sites. It makes more sense than asking the members of a message board to craft an answer.
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Post by newmnkdinvestor on May 15, 2015 15:56:12 GMT -5
Question from a Newb. So we are comparing the GS increases from the 4th quarter to the 1st quarter as this informaiton is from the end of March. Reality is we have no idea whats been done since 3/31 until now. Am I following this correctly?
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Post by benh on May 15, 2015 16:23:36 GMT -5
[quote author=" nemzter" source="/post/25876/thread" timestamp="1431720684" Goldman Sachs, after a downgrade, accumulates another 40% position, from 627k to 875k shares. Further, they increase their call position by over 1000% from $900k to over $10,000,000 [/quote]Sorry, not knowing how a call position works, what does this mean? Thanks! [/quote] A call is where for a small sum you agree to buy 100 shares of stock for a pre-agreed amount. For example: I have 100 shares of MNKD. You say you want to buy them from me on January 1st 2016 for 5.00. I say yes, but to secure that price I ask for 10c per share today. So for $10 you have secured that price on that date. On Jan 1st 2016, stock price is $2.00. I'm happy as you have to buy them for $5.00 each. You're not, as you could have bought them for $2 in the open market. Or On Jan 1st the stock price is $10. You're happy as you're getting stock at a 50% discount and I'm unhappy as I could have sold the shares on the open market for 100% profit. That is the bare bones. For more - Google. ;o)
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Post by liane on May 15, 2015 16:42:53 GMT -5
benh,
Not quite right. The buyer of the call has the right, but not the obligation to purchase the shares from you by the expiration date. So if the the s/p is $2 and it's a $5 strike, the call is worthless. The seller pockets the premium.
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Post by mnholdem on May 15, 2015 17:02:05 GMT -5
Benh, liane is correct. I have the right to buy at the strike price up to the day of expiry. In your first example, I paid a $200 premium for the right to buy your shares at $5. Because the share price dropped I choose to do nothing and let the contract expire, losing only my $200 I paid for the contract. If I had originally bought 100 shares (not options) at $5 I would have paid $5,000 and lost (on paper) $3,000 when the pps dropped to $2/share.
Your second example has share price rallying to $10. In that case I would exercise my right to buy your 100 shares @ $5. My total cost is $5,000 + $200 premium for the contract, which I sell for $10,000 netting a $4,800 profit for my initial investment of $200.
As the buyer, I have all the rights. That's what I pay the premium for.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 17:10:20 GMT -5
MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 2,930 561,914 SH DFND 1 561,914 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 1,021 195,800 SH Put DFND 1 195,800 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 971 186,200 SH Call DFND 1 186,200 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 337 64,599 SH MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 4,415 849,057 SH DFND 1 849,057 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 4,710 905,700 SH Put DFND 1 905,700 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 10,096 1,941,500 SH Call DFND 1 1,941,500 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 133 25,648 SH Goldman Sachs, after a downgrade, accumulates another 40% position, from 627k to 875k shares. Further, they increase their call position by over 1000% from $900k to over $10,000,000 unless some knows they are holding long calls.. i wouldnt make any assumptions... They might have sold those calls at 6+ and could have issued downgrade.. DOes some one know long calls or short calls for sure?
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Post by kc on May 15, 2015 17:11:06 GMT -5
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Post by gwb on May 15, 2015 17:12:27 GMT -5
Benh, liane is correct. I have the right to buy at the strike price up to the day of expiry. In your first example, I paid a $200 premium for the right to buy your shares at $5. Because the share price dropped I choose to do nothing and let the contract expire, losing only my $200 I paid for the contract. If I had originally bought 100 shares (not options) at $5 I would have paid $5,000 and lost (on paper) $3,000 when the pps dropped to $2/share. Your second example has share price rallying to $10. In that case I would exercise my right to buy your 100 shares @ $5. My total cost is $5,000 + $200 premium for the contract, which I sell for $10,000 netting a $4,800 profit for my initial investment of $200. As the buyer, I have all the rights. That's what I pay the premium for. Forgot one zero "If I had originally bought 100 shares (not options) at $5 I would have paid $5,000 and lost (on paper) $3,000 when the pps dropped to $2/share ".
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 17:26:11 GMT -5
MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 2,930 561,914 SH DFND 1 561,914 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 1,021 195,800 SH Put DFND 1 195,800 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 971 186,200 SH Call DFND 1 186,200 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 337 64,599 SH MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 4,415 849,057 SH DFND 1 849,057 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 4,710 905,700 SH Put DFND 1 905,700 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 10,096 1,941,500 SH Call DFND 1 1,941,500 0 0 MANNKIND CORP CMN 56400P201 133 25,648 SH Goldman Sachs, after a downgrade, accumulates another 40% position, from 627k to 875k shares. Further, they increase their call position by over 1000% from $900k to over $10,000,000 unless some knows they are holding long calls.. i wouldnt make any assumptions... They might have sold those calls at 6+ and could have issued downgrade.. DOes some one know long calls or short calls for sure? They would need the shares if they were short calls, would they not?
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 17:36:41 GMT -5
unless some knows they are holding long calls.. i wouldnt make any assumptions... They might have sold those calls at 6+ and could have issued downgrade.. DOes some one know long calls or short calls for sure? They would need the shares if they were short calls, would they not? They would technically... But if approved for level 4 we don't need and GS being a broker they have no approval needed
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 17:43:13 GMT -5
I highly doubt it. Especially considering they both also extended their shares, too. In tandem with Karps puts, it's probable it's long.
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Post by benh on May 15, 2015 17:43:46 GMT -5
^ agreed. It was a super over simplified, stock versus option comparator. I remember the first time reading about options and went in level 4. When I needed kindergarten level 0.
Also I used a ref of 100 shares as 1 option is a 100 block. Again, to try and keep it super simple.
Hopefully not confused too much. ;o)
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