Poll on shares being lent out

[kball]

All ears

[BD]

Somewhere north of where we are now...

[longstocking]

Aug 19, 2015 21:40:09 GMT -5 kball said:

Aug 19, 2015 21:12:56 GMT -5 BD said:

Thanks to everyone for participating in the poll. Time to un-pin.

Now if you're really bold, lets do a poll on our cost basis.

Ouch!

[4allthemarbles]

A cost basis poll would be a creative way of seeing how many people can go bonkers at the same time.

[jpg]

Aug 24, 2015 20:12:04 GMT -5 4allthemarbles said:

A cost basis poll would be a creative way of seeing how many people can go bonkers at the same time.

No matter your cost basis this most recent slide is painful. The reasoning behind the pain might just vary a little!

[_neil]

There should be another option in that voting- 'I wish I could'. I cannot lend my shares since I have less than the minimum amount in my portfolio to qualify for lending shares. I don't think there's anything wrong in longs lending out and earning interest while the sales grow at a snail's pace. I wish the management didn't make such a pathetic request to stop lending shares and should've focused solely on what they're doing in terms of progress but them's the breaks.

[tchalaa]

I think there is a lot wrong from Longs ( so call Investors) for lending their shares.
1- when you buy a share your target is to see the price per share (pps) go higher and sell it - Long trader

2- when you borrow a share and sell it immediately with the target of buying it back at a lower pps to return the borrowed shares - Short trader

3- when you buy shares to own over a long period of time (Long) and lend them out for some minor interest (Short) i.e you are a Short investor. Why? Because you buy shares for a long period showing your willingness to see the price go higher on one hand and on the other you lend those shares attesting indirectly you want the price to go down. Your lent shares were successfully shorted and they never recovered in pps, yourself will lose a lot due to the pps difference which is negative for you (current PPS - Original buy-in PPS), conclusion you are trapped - Short investor

4- when you buy shares to own over a long period of time (Long) and you don't lend them, due to the fact that you don't just diligently follow its fundamentals data but also you assert and want the value of your company to increase base on upcoming positive results - Long investor

So for me you better be honest with yourself and either be a "Short trader", a "Long trader" or "Long investor" don't make a foul of yourself by thinking you are playing smart as being a "Short investor"


If they were no "Short investors", "Short traders" will not exist, the choice is yours .... Tchalaa

[bighaus89]

People lending shares are about the only ones making money this past market week.

[patryn]

Aug 25, 2015 3:36:01 GMT -5 tchalaa said:

I think there is a lot wrong from Longs ( so call Investors) for lending their shares.
1- when you buy a share your target is to see the price per share (pps) go higher and sell it - Long trader

2- when you borrow a share and sell it immediately with the target of buying it back at a lower pps to return the borrowed shares - Short trader

3- when you buy shares to own over a long period of time (Long) and lend them out for some minor interest (Short) i.e you are a Short investor. Why? Because you buy shares for a long period showing your willingness to see the price go higher on one hand and on the other you lend those shares attesting indirectly you want the price to go down. Your lent shares were successfully shorted and they never recovered in pps, yourself will lose a lot due to the pps difference which is negative for you (current PPS - Original buy-in PPS), conclusion you are trapped - Short investor

4- when you buy shares to own over a long period of time (Long) and you don't lend them, due to the fact that you don't just diligently follow its fundamentals data but also you assert and want the value of your company to increase base on upcoming positive results - Long investor

So for me you better be honest with yourself and either be a "Short trader", a "Long trader" or "Long investor" don't make a foul of yourself by thinking you are playing smart as being a "Short investor"


If they were no "Short investors", "Short traders" will not exist, the choice is yours .... Tchalaa

Tchalaa,

I respect your point of view and would be willing to move out of the Short Investor column of your thesis if every other Short Investor did the same.  However, you would have a hard time convincing the Vanguards of the world to stop lending out their shares.

In addition, I believe your definitions are slightly off. Wanting the value of your company to grow is the job of the long manager/decision maker in the company, not an investor in the company.  I believe that what you define as long investor is actually the inside holders of the company.

As an investor, here's what I want - the maximum return on equity based on buying fractional ownership in companies.  While it is nice to see the share price of any company I own increase in value, that's not my actual investment thesis.  I buy companies that generate return on equity for me by either paying out dividends or receiving interest payments for my shares.  This is the only way real money is generated in the stock market.  If the share price increased 100x and I sold my shares, then yes I would gain a great profit - but someone was on the other end of that trade and lost a corresponding amount of money.  If instead, I am paid a dividend for however many years and recoup my initial investment - that's a sustainable gain - every shareholder gets that without anyone being on the other end of a trade.  

I consider myself a long investor, but maybe it's a matter of semantics and I'm really a long buyer?  I pretty much don't sell stocks for a profit or loss - I just keep adding more money into my investments.  In the last 10 years, I have sold stocks exactly 4 times.  Once to start my business, once to buy a house, once to help my parents buy a farm, and once to buy more shares of MNKD.  The rest of my stock transactions have all been purchases and I pretty much reinvest all the dividends and proceeds back into buying more stocks.  It's a sustainable model for me, and while I consider it long term investing, you may call it something else - but certainly I don't think of it as short anything.

[4allthemarbles]

Patryn,
Good for you man. Nice plan.