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Post by tayl5 on Oct 20, 2015 11:51:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the discussion, gentlemen. In a brokered account if shares could not be acquired, I'd expect that the deficit represented by the short would rise to the point where the broker would demand more capital or close out the position, but I'm not sure how they would close out the position if they couldn't get shares either. Pretty uncomfortable, regardless.
I appreciate the help understanding how this all works, at least for peasants with brokerage accounts. Perhaps it looks different for a hedge fund or GS trader. I learned in an earlier discussion that MMs can even convert restricted stock into publicly-traded stock, so it seems their rules are quite different.
As a long, I may lose money but at least I won't lose my mind.
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Post by karl on Oct 20, 2015 20:44:36 GMT -5
Let me tell you how you can make 20% in 3 months. You sell your shares at 3.35 the current price, and sell Jan16 put with strike 10 at 7.30. By Jan 16, you shall have 1.2 shares.
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Post by mssciguy on Oct 20, 2015 20:56:14 GMT -5
Let me tell you how you can make 20% in 3 months. You sell your shares at 3.35 the current price, and sell Jan16 put with strike 10 at 7.30. By Jan 16, you shall have 1.2 shares. nothing can possibly go wrong?  Options are very dangerous. |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Oct 21, 2015 1:00:27 GMT -5
Let me tell you how you can make 20% in 3 months. You sell your shares at 3.35 the current price, and sell Jan16 put with strike 10 at 7.30. By Jan 16, you shall have 1.2 shares. Better than a sharp stick in the eye for sure. Implied volatility is getting a bit crazy... though I suppose one could say that about the real volatility. |
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Post by joeypotsandpans on Nov 16, 2015 11:00:04 GMT -5
40%
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Post by yossarian on Nov 16, 2015 12:52:00 GMT -5
Schwab interest rate on loaned shares now 40%,
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Post by zieg on Nov 18, 2015 14:54:06 GMT -5
Fidelity just raised interest rates to 42.5% to pay lenders.
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Post by EveningOfTheDay on Nov 18, 2015 15:08:34 GMT -5
Woolly Mammoth!!! This is getting beyond unreal.
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Post by jeremg on Nov 18, 2015 15:16:03 GMT -5
I can't believe the rates continue to increase, the last few trading days we've seen much lower short interest % of daily volume compared to recent history. After the enormous volume/movement on Nov. 12th, the short volume plummeted to under 35% and dropping over the last three trading days. Its hard to believe anyone would be opening a new short position at this price point, I can't see more than $0.50 to be made (maybe?) and the cost/risk of shorting is astronomical compared to the potential gain. Really defies logic.
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Post by kball on Nov 18, 2015 15:53:23 GMT -5
Woolly Mammoth!!! This is getting beyond unreal. If the rates and pps stay exactly the same for the next year, i can almost break even! Then reality sets in |
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Post by joeypotsandpans on Nov 18, 2015 16:10:40 GMT -5
I can't believe the rates continue to increase, the last few trading days we've seen much lower short interest % of daily volume compared to recent history. After the enormous volume/movement on Nov. 12th, the short volume plummeted to under 35% and dropping over the last three trading days. Its hard to believe anyone would be opening a new short position at this price point, I can't see more than $0.50 to be made (maybe?) and the cost/risk of shorting is astronomical compared to the potential gain. Really defies logic. Wringing out a sponge...tougher and tougher to get more drops out, look at a dry shrunk sponge...how much and how quickly is water absorbed by a "thirsty" sponge...this one has its tongue hanging out for 120m drops of water...water supply (shares) harder to come by need to pay/bid up a little higher each time this isn't like the treasury where they can just keep "printing" the water although they like to make you think they can....very telling imo, all the signs are coming into place, been quite some time in the making and guess what, my pizza guy just keeps adding also...your fairly new here (coincidentally with a few others), that thread's an oldie but goodie |
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Post by jeremg on Nov 18, 2015 16:24:21 GMT -5
joeypotsandpans, I've read probably everything posted over the last year or so, but I don't remember reading anything about your "pizza guy" investing here as well. Care to point me in the right direction?  Also your sponge analogy I believe is referring to a short squeeze(?), I would prefer not to see a short squeeze, but instead a smooth (not too steep) climb to new highs backed by fundamentals and supportive material events to catch the PPS if it were to stumble along the way. A short squeeze would result in a peak where the big guys would sell off and I have no confidence in my ability to time this event so I'd probably be left wading through the rubble of such an event; I've already decided I would hold through a squeeze so this would not benefit my long horizon investment strategy. Edit: Might consider selling a small chunk @ $45-60 in the event of a squeeze
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Post by mssciguy on Nov 18, 2015 16:27:25 GMT -5
joeypotsandpans, I've read probably everything posted over the last year or so, but I don't remember reading anything about your "pizza guy" investing here as well. Care to point me in the right direction? Also your sponge analogy I believe is referring to a short squeeze(?), I would prefer not to see a short squeeze, but instead a smooth (not too steep) climb to new highs backed by fundamentals and supportive material events to catch the PPS if it were to stumble along the way. A short squeeze would result in a peak where the big guys would sell off and I have no confidence in my ability to time this event so I'd probably be left wading through the rubble of such an event; I've already decided I would hold through a squeeze so this would not benefit my long horizon investment strategy. Edit: Might consider selling a small chunk @ $45-60 in the event of a squeeze Had to use google to find this, enjoy mnkd.proboards.com/thread/1172/pizza-guy-adam-et-al |
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Post by jeremg on Nov 18, 2015 16:38:39 GMT -5
, I've read probably everything posted over the last year or so, but I don't remember reading anything about your "pizza guy" investing here as well. Care to point me in the right direction? Also your sponge analogy I believe is referring to a short squeeze(?), I would prefer not to see a short squeeze, but instead a smooth (not too steep) climb to new highs backed by fundamentals and supportive material events to catch the PPS if it were to stumble along the way. A short squeeze would result in a peak where the big guys would sell off and I have no confidence in my ability to time this event so I'd probably be left wading through the rubble of such an event; I've already decided I would hold through a squeeze so this would not benefit my long horizon investment strategy. Edit: Might consider selling a small chunk @ $45-60 in the event of a squeeze Had to use google to find this, enjoy mnkd.proboards.com/thread/1172/pizza-guy-adam-et-al, his pizza guy made more in that time period than I did  I am very happy I could not convince my family to invest when it was sitting in the $4s and I was doing most of my averaging down. Very few in my immediate circle of influence have the patience to weather this storm and I would probably have a few very strained relationships to compound my very strained brokerage account  |
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Post by cusop on Nov 19, 2015 9:07:28 GMT -5
Am i missing something, but if the interest rate at shorting at $4 was 20%, is that no different then $2 at 40%, the shorts are not getting squeezed until a market value of of the Share goes up and the margin stays the same, then everyone sells to cover.
All I a saying as a long, we cannot expect the pressure cooker to burst for some time to come and if it does it will not be a major event and we will all end sitting long with a slight degree of relief.
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Also your sponge analogy I believe is referring to a short squeeze(?), I would prefer not to see a short squeeze, but instead a smooth (not too steep) climb to new highs backed by fundamentals and supportive material events to catch the PPS if it were to stumble along the way. A short squeeze would result in a peak where the big guys would sell off and I have no confidence in my ability to time this event so I'd probably be left wading through the rubble of such an event; I've already decided I would hold through a squeeze so this would not benefit my long horizon investment strategy.
I am very happy I could not convince my family to invest when it was sitting in the $4s and I was doing most of my averaging down. Very few in my immediate circle of influence have the patience to weather this storm and I would probably have a few very strained relationships to compound my very strained brokerage account 