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Post by dreamboatcruise on Nov 9, 2015 21:19:13 GMT -5
effort and results. And I referenced Toujeo. A lot of coverage has to do with contracts. How much the supplier is willing to sell their product for. If SNY doesn't feel they're getting compensated properly, it's all or nothing. So someone has to budge. It's a delicate dance, no doubt, but they don't seem too motivated to get Afrezza covered. Insurance companies want to cover cheaper drugs. And they want to cover drugs in general. The more coverage they have, the more attractive they are to their potential customers. The ball is in SNY's court here. It's not my job to make the call on how much Afrezza is worth for reimbursement, but I can tell you with certainty that it should be covered by now. It's not any newer of a medication than Toujeo is. It's human insulin. Sure, it's inhaled, but insurance companies don't care about that. If there are any complications due to the inhaled particles, MNKD will get sued and will be responsible for any damages. The FDA has already approved the drug. It's all hinging on contractual agreements over reimbursement. Conveniently, I also worked in revenue at a hospital for 2 years, so I'm somewhat familiar with insurance contracts. I could be wrong, but that's my understanding off the knowledge and experience I have... It seems like Toujeo having clinical trials showing superiority to an already widely used Lantus, makes that a bit of a stretch to set as an expectation... but ok. It stills seems like you've got some non public information or mind reading abilities (above bold). Maybe SNY and MNKD have more faith than you in Afrezza being able to command a high price and still get decent coverage in time. Remember, SNY would be motivated to maximize the franchise value, not necessarily strike deals for expediency. I would have every expectation that SNY is expending great effort on formulary issue... though I'll be first to say that is an expectation with no non public information backing it up.
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Post by cathode on Nov 9, 2015 21:26:56 GMT -5
effort and results. And I referenced Toujeo. A lot of coverage has to do with contracts. How much the supplier is willing to sell their product for. If SNY doesn't feel they're getting compensated properly, it's all or nothing. So someone has to budge. It's a delicate dance, no doubt, but they don't seem too motivated to get Afrezza covered. Insurance companies want to cover cheaper drugs. And they want to cover drugs in general. The more coverage they have, the more attractive they are to their potential customers. The ball is in SNY's court here. It's not my job to make the call on how much Afrezza is worth for reimbursement, but I can tell you with certainty that it should be covered by now. It's not any newer of a medication than Toujeo is. It's human insulin. Sure, it's inhaled, but insurance companies don't care about that. If there are any complications due to the inhaled particles, MNKD will get sued and will be responsible for any damages. The FDA has already approved the drug. It's all hinging on contractual agreements over reimbursement. Conveniently, I also worked in revenue at a hospital for 2 years, so I'm somewhat familiar with insurance contracts. I could be wrong, but that's my understanding off the knowledge and experience I have... Lot of hate coming your way.... I think it is pretty undue and won't be participating. Personal attacks are petty and those on the internet more so. I have to disagree with what I bolded in your quote. Afrezza certainly is newer medication than Toujeo. As has been stated here and on every MNKD message board for the past year or so, Toujeo is just Lantus, a drug that is very well understood by patients, prescribers, and payers. I, and those I find to be informed, think there are a number of unique characteristics of Afrezza that concern these three groups and require serious education efforts for successful uptake. This has been and continues to be where Sanofi is putting their resources for Afrezza. They were able to be more effective, on face value, with Toujeo partly because of the incentive in protecting the basal franchise and partly because less barriers stood in their way.
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Post by stevil on Nov 9, 2015 21:27:10 GMT -5
effort and results. And I referenced Toujeo. A lot of coverage has to do with contracts. How much the supplier is willing to sell their product for. If SNY doesn't feel they're getting compensated properly, it's all or nothing. So someone has to budge. It's a delicate dance, no doubt, but they don't seem too motivated to get Afrezza covered. Insurance companies want to cover cheaper drugs. And they want to cover drugs in general. The more coverage they have, the more attractive they are to their potential customers. The ball is in SNY's court here. It's not my job to make the call on how much Afrezza is worth for reimbursement, but I can tell you with certainty that it should be covered by now. It's not any newer of a medication than Toujeo is. It's human insulin. Sure, it's inhaled, but insurance companies don't care about that. If there are any complications due to the inhaled particles, MNKD will get sued and will be responsible for any damages. The FDA has already approved the drug. It's all hinging on contractual agreements over reimbursement. Conveniently, I also worked in revenue at a hospital for 2 years, so I'm somewhat familiar with insurance contracts. I could be wrong, but that's my understanding off the knowledge and experience I have... It seems like Toujeo having clinical trials showing superiority to an already widely used Lantus, makes that a bit of a stretch to set as an expectation... but ok. It stills seems like you've got some non public information or mind reading abilities (above bold). Maybe SNY and MNKD have more faith than you in Afrezza being able to command a high price and still get decent coverage in time. Remember, SNY would be motivated to maximize the franchise value, not necessarily strike deals for expediency. I would have every expectation that SNY is expending great effort on formulary issue... though I'll be first to say that is an expectation with no non public information backing it up. No non public information here. Again, I form an opinion off of what is known. I read the tea leaves. Why hasn't SNY bought into MNKD if their faith is so high? Why do they not endorse Afrezza more in their presentations? As Blindhog has shown, SNY is already in trouble with another drug for doing the bare minimum (or actually less than what was contractually agreed upon) so they have a reputation of sand bagging drugs. SNY has a different CEO than the one who approved of the Afrezza deal. I could be wrong, but yes, their motivation seems suspect at best right now. It appears SNY is finally budging more on price because they're realizing something is better than nothing. And while time isn't all that important to SNY, their supplier in MNKD doesn't have more than 2 years left right now on the books. They need to help them out and make a deal. I'm not a businessman, but we don't have the leverage right now to make great deals. Al has worked his magic in the past, but we just need a steady stream of revenue to fund the "embarrassment of riches". We can't put all our eggs in the Afrezza basket. That's what's so dangerous about MNKD's situation right now. We need more revenue streams than just one, especially when that one isn't panning out the way it was expected.
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Post by mindovermatter on Nov 9, 2015 21:30:56 GMT -5
Has anyone ever heard a CEO on a conference call plead for other companies to partner with them? That was a first for me and it really was awkward listening to Hakan do that.
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Post by stevil on Nov 9, 2015 21:31:15 GMT -5
effort and results. And I referenced Toujeo. A lot of coverage has to do with contracts. How much the supplier is willing to sell their product for. If SNY doesn't feel they're getting compensated properly, it's all or nothing. So someone has to budge. It's a delicate dance, no doubt, but they don't seem too motivated to get Afrezza covered. Insurance companies want to cover cheaper drugs. And they want to cover drugs in general. The more coverage they have, the more attractive they are to their potential customers. The ball is in SNY's court here. It's not my job to make the call on how much Afrezza is worth for reimbursement, but I can tell you with certainty that it should be covered by now. It's not any newer of a medication than Toujeo is. It's human insulin. Sure, it's inhaled, but insurance companies don't care about that. If there are any complications due to the inhaled particles, MNKD will get sued and will be responsible for any damages. The FDA has already approved the drug. It's all hinging on contractual agreements over reimbursement. Conveniently, I also worked in revenue at a hospital for 2 years, so I'm somewhat familiar with insurance contracts. I could be wrong, but that's my understanding off the knowledge and experience I have... Lot of hate coming your way.... I think it is pretty undue and won't be participating. Personal attacks are petty and those on the internet more so. I have to disagree with what I bolded in your quote. Afrezza certainly is newer medication than Toujeo. As has been stated here and on every MNKD message board for the past year or so, Toujeo is just Lantus, a drug that is very well understood by patients, prescribers, and payers. I, and those I find to be informed, think there are a number of unique characteristics of Afrezza that concern these three groups and require serious education efforts for successful uptake. This has been and continues to be where Sanofi is putting their resources for Afrezza. They were able to be more effective, on face value, with Toujeo partly because of the incentive in protecting the basal franchise and partly because less barriers stood in their way. Thanks for your words cathode. I'll be signing off tonight after this. I always viewed this as a message board. People share what they know and bounce ideas off of each other. But it appears either the majority, or very vocal minority don't want me here. So I'll just keep gleaning information from the peppy's and lakers's and mnholdem's of the site and keep the popcorn bowl full I appreciate someone disagreeing with me, but I won't get back into it with you... Kinda tired and ready to call it a night
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Post by scottiemac on Nov 9, 2015 21:37:30 GMT -5
pktrumpAgreed on the advertising. For God's sake Viagra is covered by insurance - I wonder how hard that was to get on insurance formularies (no pun intended). Last time I checked not keeping an erection is probably less important than controlling a life threatening disease. I agree that MNKD needs to get tough and smack SNY around a bit. But then again perhaps they negotiated away their leverage. Re Viagra: "Absent a national decision, even U.S. federal programs adopted divergent positions. The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) refused to add Viagra to its formulary on the grounds that the costs of providing the drug would add 20 percent to its pharmaceutical budget (although the ban was not complete; an escape clause allowed doctors to argue for its prescription as exceptions). In contrast, the Medicaid program automatically included Viagra for the treatment of ED following its approval by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), as required by legislation, although the agency feared clinical and financial abuse. Of course, the financial implications of this were relatively modest compared with those faced by the VA health system, given that only about 10 percent of Medicaid beneficiaries are adult males. In any case, the decision was variously implemented by the states. Some resisted outright (among them, New York, Wisconsin, and Nevada). Others followed the recommendations of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) designed to minimize misuse and rationed the amount prescribed: from four pills per month (for example, in Alabama and Florida) to ten (in Utah). Health insurers and plans showed a similarly mixed picture. A very few plans included Viagra in their formulary from the start; one such was Tufts, which put it in its highest copayment category. The great majority resisted. “Simply put, having sexual relations is not a medical necessity,” one Aetna official argued to the New York Department of Insurance. However, under the challenge of both court rulings and state regulators, many of the insurers were forced to abandon or modify the blanket exclusion of Viagra." content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/6/177.full
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Post by nylefty on Nov 9, 2015 21:40:19 GMT -5
Yup, IMO the entire process from insurance coverage, to making it easy to get a script will be dealt with effectively and the floodgates of those wanting Afrezza will burst open. That is my belief for 2016. Don't for a second think that there is not a ton of work going on behind the scenes to make this all happen. Hey, I trust MNKD and the man behind it, Dr. Al Mann. This is where I stand on the entire matter. Well said, Denise...and I'm considering following your lead and trying to ignore the not-so-soft basher in the white coat.
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Post by mssciguy on Nov 9, 2015 22:01:55 GMT -5
But on the other hand, if you think how much resources Pfizer probably put into the marketing of Exubera, you would not be surprised Afrezza's sales are so slow at this point. Given the unexpected slow uptick of scripts and the unprecedented shorting on Mannkind, I think the TASE offering overall is a pretty good solution to the cash situation. Kind of feeling that the TASE offering will be a turning point to Mannkind like when Ford had a second offering at $5 in 2009/2010 or when Solomon Brothers did the public offering for Geico to buttress its capital back in the 1970s. compound26 I am not making excuses for anyone here, including myself for maybe making a grave investment error. Everything MNKD has done on a medical, engineering, technical, regulatory level has been GREAT, great product, great patents, great prospects, but then why does Wall Street hate this company and completely decimate popular sentiment (and hence, market capitalization). Something is not right. Dilution is indeed continuing over time which confirms AF's claims! Why??? Why is this happening??? Very simply, the public relations of MNKD is dreadful. The blogs by the investors and by Afrezza users are of better quality than either the MNKD website, or even Sanofi's online outreach thus far. Very disappointed. Where is Al??? Where is EU approval??? Where is visible, clear, transparent, vocal, leadership? I would not recommend this stock to anyone at this point. It's like these guys are trying to fail.
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Post by longinvstr on Nov 9, 2015 22:16:28 GMT -5
Yup, IMO the entire process from insurance coverage, to making it easy to get a script will be dealt with effectively and the floodgates of those wanting Afrezza will burst open. That is my belief for 2016. Don't for a second think that there is not a ton of work going on behind the scenes to make this all happen. Hey, I trust MNKD and the man behind it, Dr. Al Mann. This is where I stand on the entire matter. Well said, Denise...and I'm considering following your lead and trying to ignore the not-so-soft basher in the white coat.Can't zoom & can't tell; is that a sheepskin coat?
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Post by purge on Nov 9, 2015 22:28:01 GMT -5
What would management do any different if they were trying to fail? There is no PR. We have no friends on Wall Street standing up for us. Manndind won't even stand up for us. They just bend over and take it.
Until management and Sanofi gets serious about giving us some good PR, we are doomed. I will not be shocked if Sanofi ends the partnership. Let's hope our management is making contingency plans to address that real perceived possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 22:38:35 GMT -5
It seems like Toujeo having clinical trials showing superiority to an already widely used Lantus, makes that a bit of a stretch to set as an expectation... but ok. It stills seems like you've got some non public information or mind reading abilities (above bold). Maybe SNY and MNKD have more faith than you in Afrezza being able to command a high price and still get decent coverage in time. Remember, SNY would be motivated to maximize the franchise value, not necessarily strike deals for expediency. I would have every expectation that SNY is expending great effort on formulary issue... though I'll be first to say that is an expectation with no non public information backing it up. No non public information here. Again, I form an opinion off of what is known. I read the tea leaves. Why hasn't SNY bought into MNKD if their faith is so high? Why do they not endorse Afrezza more in their presentations? As Blindhog has shown, SNY is already in trouble with another drug for doing the bare minimum (or actually less than what was contractually agreed upon) so they have a reputation of sand bagging drugs. SNY has a different CEO than the one who approved of the Afrezza deal. I could be wrong, but yes, their motivation seems suspect at best right now. It appears SNY is finally budging more on price because they're realizing something is better than nothing. And while time isn't all that important to SNY, their supplier in MNKD doesn't have more than 2 years left right now on the books. They need to help them out and make a deal. I'm not a businessman, but we don't have the leverage right now to make great deals. Al has worked his magic in the past, but we just need a steady stream of revenue to fund the "embarrassment of riches". We can't put all our eggs in the Afrezza basket. That's what's so dangerous about MNKD's situation right now. We need more revenue streams than just one, especially when that one isn't panning out the way it was expected.
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Post by robsacher on Nov 10, 2015 0:17:26 GMT -5
Ok, folks. This is what it comes down to and it's not like we should fein surprise at where the company is today. Anyone following our story and doing reasonable due diligence should know that the company needs to raise capital. It's not rocket science. The news has been out there for at least two financial quarters. It's time to man up now. Blame is for losers. Winners work harder. It's easy to complain when times are difficult. I'm adding to my position. I like the odds. I like the potential return on this $2+ stock. We have another year, for sure. And, after that, who knows. But that's what you get in life. Some folks don't even get that. Isn't this National Cancer Awareness month?
Yes, there are problems. But blaming management is short sided. You have not walked a mile in their shoes. You have no idea. You don't. You know a lot less then you think you do, at least about this management team.
You want to get out, then get out. And then go away. I'm staying. More. I'm adding shares. If you can't add, then hold. And do it with some inner strength.
Anyone who follows what I write knows that I write about potential and nothing has changed in the light of yesterday's news or today's news regarding MannKind, Technosphere, or Afrezza. In reality, we may never have ever had more than a year or two without financing issues with which to contend in the multi years I have been invested here.
Al Mann will NOT allow MannKind to sink for want of capital to see the company through this difficult time, not with all that Al has already invested in ten years of development and a billion dollars of his own money. And, not with another billion in his portfolio. MannKind will be successful. Afrezza will be successful.
Stop your sniveling. You've been given two victories this week. Sanofi reaffirmed and MannKind refinanced.
Respect.
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Post by rrtzmd on Nov 10, 2015 0:44:13 GMT -5
Yup, IMO the entire process from insurance coverage, to making it easy to get a script will be dealt with effectively and the floodgates of those wanting Afrezza will burst open. That is my belief for 2016. Don't for a second think that there is not a ton of work going on behind the scenes to make this all happen. Hey, I trust MNKD and the man behind it, Dr. Al Mann. This is where I stand on the entire matter. On the other hand, having dealt with attempting to sell afrezza the past 9-10 months, perhaps SNY came to the conclusion that there is no reason to do anything to "open the floodgates." Perhaps their experience so far suggests the reservoir is near dry. As someone else mentioned, when Sanofi is excited about something's prospects, they know how to get the job done -- just reviewing the SNY presentation and what they've done for toujeo and what they are doing for praluent shows that. Maybe SNY simply decided that afrezza is only a niche drug and not worth the aggressive pursuit of market share.
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Post by dejude42 on Nov 10, 2015 1:48:20 GMT -5
robsacherBravo, very well put. Thank you for comments.
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Post by liane on Nov 10, 2015 5:54:23 GMT -5
Ok, folks. This is what it comes down to and it's not like we should fein surprise at where the company is today. Anyone following our story and doing reasonable due diligence should know that the company needs to raise capital. It's not rocket science. The news has been out there for at least two financial quarters. It's time to man up now. Blame is for losers. Winners work harder. It's easy to complain when times are difficult. I'm adding to my position. I like the odds. I like the potential return on this $2+ stock. We have another year, for sure. And, after that, who knows. But that's what you get in life. Some folks don't even get that. Isn't this National Cancer Awareness month? Yes, there are problems. But blaming management is short sided. You have not walked a mile in their shoes. You have no idea. You don't. You know a lot less then you think you do, at least about this management team. You want to get out, then get out. And then go away. I'm staying. More. I'm adding shares. If you can't add, then hold. And do it with some inner strength. Anyone who follows what I write knows that I write about potential and nothing has changed in the light of yesterday's news or today's news regarding MannKind, Technosphere, or Afrezza. In reality, we may never have ever had more than a year or two without financing issues with which to contend in the multi years I have been invested here. Al Mann will NOT allow MannKind to sink for want of capital to see the company through this difficult time, not with all that Al has already invested in ten years of development and a billion dollars of his own money. And, not with another billion in his portfolio. MannKind will be successful. Afrezza will be successful. Stop your sniveling. You've been given two victories this week. Sanofi reaffirmed and MannKind refinanced. Respect. Very well said! On days like this, I remind myself what the diabetes treatment landscape will look like in 5 to 10 years. We simply won't recognize it from where we stand now. How we get there may not be by the route I expect. This I know; this is why I'm invested in MNKD. I do know I will regret not adding more to my retirement account at every opportunity.
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