"Cancer questions over popular diabetes drugs"

[peppy]

Sept 2, 2016 17:09:17 GMT -5 tayl5 said:

Reviving an old thread, Johns Hopkins researchers recently reported that the combination of a cancer drug and metformin had much bigger effect on pancreatic tumors than the cancer drug by itself. The researchers thought the difference was that metformin limited the tumor cells' supply of glucose. Given that Afrezza does a fine job of eliminating glucose spikes, maybe someday doctors will think of Afrezza as reducing, rather than potentially increasing, cancer risk.

BTW, I never responded to peppy's comment about the rationale for the Warburg effect. One plausible explanation is that using fermentation for energy rather than oxidative phosphorylation allows more of the energy and carbon in glucose to be used for the construction of cellular components. Cancer cells are typically growing and dividing faster than non-cancer cells, and it doesn't help to have extra energy if you don't have the parts needed to grow.

food wise, (I am a foodie) to my brain cells that translates into, no complex carbs.

In my world animal products are ruled out. Talk about hormones. and proteins. (These animals are sick now.)

Reducing blood glucose to help control cancer growth would mean a lot of steamed spinach and roasted cauliflower.

You have to eat something.

[cm5]

Yes, the steamed broccoli, caulifower, etc---

Plus, keeping in mind AGE's----Advanced Glycation Endproducts, consuming enough but not too many calories, real foods rather than homogenized preservative/additive laden processed foods.

In other words, it is possible (unfortunately not possible for those living in the Food Deserts in which far too many are trapped by exogenous forces)
to consume what tastes good and is good for us---- and, if human beings were actually allowed enough time to eat slowly, enjoying conversation with other human beings, let alone enough time/funds/wherewithal to cook/make find healthful/very satisfying food----

Spoke with a patient yesterday, Type II who becomes off and on insulin dependent, who with just five pounds of weight gain is back on insulin---
but struggles constantly with that five pounds---brilliant, vital man-----

Those five pounds appear within days of eating fast food sandwiches on the run, when he works even harder to satisfy corporate demands/expectations.

This cycle clearly is a constant in the world driven by constant monitoring of productivity and creative quarterly financial engineering imposed upon human beings by mega multinational corporations.

All he needs is Afrezza-------  but a resistant endo-----but the tide will turn. I have index card size handout with links to data/resources that I give these patients-----

[agedhippie]

Sept 3, 2016 4:52:19 GMT -5 LosingMyBullishness said:

Feb 19, 2016 16:15:56 GMT -5 agedhippie said:

It will not cause a cancer, and it will not help it spread. What it may do is help it grow. Given a pre-cancerous lesion what you are doing is introducing a growth factor into an existing situation where you really do not want things to grow and become established. Think of it like watering a plant - if it's just barren soil no amount of watering will make a plant suddenly appear, but if there is a plant there watering it will keep it alive and now you are adding Babybio in the form of insulin to help it grow.

One of the reasons I avoided Januvia is because the mechanism it uses to reduce your blood sugar inhibits the mechanism the body uses to clean up pre-cancers.

Aged,
Sometimes you do mention this concern. Why are you not convinced by replies or your endo that the very quick disolving on the TS particles and the very residue time on the surface makes this a non issue? Why don't you agreed that flooding the body with basal Insulin has a bigger impact due to the constant exposure. And why do you use 'coat' that gives a incorrect picture?
MNKD has been testing Afrezza for many years now and there was not one single incident of induced cancer. If you request 20 years of long term test for every medication for a chronic disease you take away this alternative for many millions of ill people. Why?

That post was from six months ago. I was convinced after I talked to my endo after all this is his day job and I am just an interested amateur. If you go back and look at my posts and I haven't argued for Afrezza causing insulin since.

[peppy]

Feb 19, 2016 16:15:56 GMT -5 agedhippie said:

Feb 19, 2016 14:30:37 GMT -5 dictatorsaurus said:

Is that even how cancer develops or spreads?

Your reasoning seems very generic and non-scientific based purely on assumption.

It will not cause a cancer, and it will not help it spread. What it may do is help it grow. Given a pre-cancerous lesion what you are doing is introducing a growth factor into an existing situation where you really do not want things to grow and become established. Think of it like watering a plant - if it's just barren soil no amount of watering will make a plant suddenly appear, but if there is a plant there watering it will keep it alive and now you are adding Babybio in the form of insulin to help it grow.

One of the reasons I avoided Januvia is because the mechanism it uses to reduce your blood sugar inhibits the mechanism the body uses to clean up pre-cancers.

quote: What it may do is help it grow. Given a pre-cancerous lesion what you are doing is introducing a growth factor into an existing situation where you really do not want things to grow and become established. Think of it like watering a plant

reply: That is exactly my feeling on animal products. All the hormones, the proteins.

All the essential proteins and hormones.

Got Milk?

Got Meat?

Pick your proteins and delivery system?

[agedhippie]

Sept 3, 2016 11:44:06 GMT -5 peppy said:

Feb 19, 2016 16:15:56 GMT -5 agedhippie said:

It will not cause a cancer, and it will not help it spread. What it may do is help it grow. Given a pre-cancerous lesion what you are doing is introducing a growth factor into an existing situation where you really do not want things to grow and become established. Think of it like watering a plant - if it's just barren soil no amount of watering will make a plant suddenly appear, but if there is a plant there watering it will keep it alive and now you are adding Babybio in the form of insulin to help it grow.

One of the reasons I avoided Januvia is because the mechanism it uses to reduce your blood sugar inhibits the mechanism the body uses to clean up pre-cancers.

quote: What it may do is help it grow. Given a pre-cancerous lesion what you are doing is introducing a growth factor into an existing situation where you really do not want things to grow and become established. Think of it like watering a plant

reply: That is exactly my feeling on animal products. All the hormones, the proteins.

All the essential proteins and hormones.

Got Milk?

Got Meat?

Pick your proteins and delivery system?

Good point. I think you are talking about the natural hormones and protiens but I would add the way they pump drugs into animals to bulk them up. I'm quite picky about sourcing food because of the drugs in animals.

[cjm18]

Great article on the subject.

www.oncologynutrition.org/erfc/healthy-nutrition-now/sugar-and-cancer/

Scroll about 2/3 down and you will see a chart that looks quite similar to a certain afrezza chart showing its fast in and out properties. Hmmm. Interesting.

[matt]

A substance doesn't have to have a direct cause and effect relationship (i.e. cigarette smoking) to increase the incidence of cancer. There are numerous biological signaling pathways in the human body, too many to list, and some of those control apoptosis (programmed cell death) which control which older cells will die so that they can be replaced by healthier young cells. Apoptotic pathways can be upregulated to downregulated by an equally numerous set of proteins, peptides, and other signaling molecules, and without large and longer-term studies it is impossible to exclude the possibility that any particular drug or delivery method, if different from what nature intended, will not increase the incidence of cancer. At the end of the day without high quality data from long-term trials EVERYBODY is just guessing.

[cm5]

Thank you, cjm18, for posting link to excellent article about how to eat healthfully, reduce risks.

I add the following: AGE's  Advanced Glycation End Products are just as important as the Glycemic Index:

Advanced Glycation End Products
By Lori Zanteson
Today’s Dietitian
Vol. 16 No. 3 P. 10
www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/030314p10.shtml

It’s well-known that overeating and obesity can lead to insulin resistance, triggered by chronically elevated oxidative stress and chronic inflammation. Recent evidence has found that excessive consumption of advanced glycation end products (AGEs), harmful compounds that stem from cooking foods at high temperatures and accumulate in the body as people age, are a major cause of this inflammation that can increase the risk of insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes.

Dietary interventions that reduce the consumption of foods high in AGEs, which are common in the standard Western diet, can be effective in helping prevent these metabolic disorders.

Understanding AGEs

AGEs naturally form inside the body when proteins or fats combine with sugars (glycation). This affects the normal function of cells, making them more susceptible to damage and premature aging. AGEs are particularly high in animal-derived foods that are high in fat and protein, such as meats (especially red meats), which are prone to AGE formation through cooking. Sugary foods and highly processed and prepackaged products also are high in AGEs. Cooking methods that use high temperatures to brown or char foods, such as grilling, roasting, and broiling, have the largest impact on the amount of AGEs consumed.

The body naturally rids itself of harmful AGE compounds, but it doesn’t eliminate them effectively when too many are ingested through food. All of the body’s cells are affected by the accumulation of AGEs, which not only have been linked to aging but also the development or worsening of many chronic illnesses, such as cardiovascular, liver, and Alzheimer’s diseases.

Another study coauthored by Uribarri, published in the January issue of Current Diabetes Reports, showed that because AGEs are associated with oxidative stress, they’re of particular concern to patients with diabetes and prediabetes. The researchers found that subjects who consumed a meal with a high AGE content had an increased circulation of AGEs in the body, and that lowering dietary AGE intake could improve hyperinsulinemia by about 40% in type 2 diabetes patients. Excessive intake of AGEs as a potential cause of diabetes is “an area of major clinical relevance,” the study concluded.

The Trinity---Low Glycemic Index, Low AGE's, + Afrezza

Just think how public health deterioration could reverse if everyone appreciated, understood, and had access to the three components-----

But, society as a whole has to do something about access to good basic foods, and to make certain that everyone has the time for all of the trinity--plus walking, plus some kind of exercise---not work shift micromanagement, as initiated and perpetuated by Starbucks, a corporation that does not hesitate to imply moral superiority. Very curious.

Just imagine the possibilities. 

[mpg54]

Injecting insulin into your blood stream or inhaling it makes NO difference at all.  The lungs much like the heart are a major blood flow organ.  If you inject insulin guess what, its going to flow through your lungs.  Complete nonsense that inhaling it is going to have a difference effect.  As for pulmonary fibrosis, if Afrezza is not capable of leaving residue in the lungs due to its size and structure, there is NO chance of fibrosis.  All non-sense to me.  

[cjm18]

Sept 4, 2016 14:03:06 GMT -5 cm5 said:

Thank you, cjm18, for posting link to excellent article about how to eat healthfully, reduce risks.

I add the following: AGE's  Advanced Glycation End Products are just as important as the Glycemic Index:

Advanced Glycation End Products
By Lori Zanteson
Today’s Dietitian
Vol. 16 No. 3 P. 10
www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/030314p10.shtml

It’s well-known that overeating and obesity can lead to insulin resistance, triggered by chronically elevated oxidative stress and chronic inflammation. Recent evidence has found that excessive consumption of advanced glycation end products (AGEs), harmful compounds that stem from cooking foods at high temperatures and accumulate in the body as people age, are a major cause of this inflammation that can increase the risk of insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes.

Dietary interventions that reduce the consumption of foods high in AGEs, which are common in the standard Western diet, can be effective in helping prevent these metabolic disorders.

Understanding AGEs

AGEs naturally form inside the body when proteins or fats combine with sugars (glycation). This affects the normal function of cells, making them more susceptible to damage and premature aging. AGEs are particularly high in animal-derived foods that are high in fat and protein, such as meats (especially red meats), which are prone to AGE formation through cooking. Sugary foods and highly processed and prepackaged products also are high in AGEs. Cooking methods that use high temperatures to brown or char foods, such as grilling, roasting, and broiling, have the largest impact on the amount of AGEs consumed.

The body naturally rids itself of harmful AGE compounds, but it doesn’t eliminate them effectively when too many are ingested through food. All of the body’s cells are affected by the accumulation of AGEs, which not only have been linked to aging but also the development or worsening of many chronic illnesses, such as cardiovascular, liver, and Alzheimer’s diseases.

Another study coauthored by Uribarri, published in the January issue of Current Diabetes Reports, showed that because AGEs are associated with oxidative stress, they’re of particular concern to patients with diabetes and prediabetes. The researchers found that subjects who consumed a meal with a high AGE content had an increased circulation of AGEs in the body, and that lowering dietary AGE intake could improve hyperinsulinemia by about 40% in type 2 diabetes patients. Excessive intake of AGEs as a potential cause of diabetes is “an area of major clinical relevance,” the study concluded.

The Trinity---Low Glycemic Index, Low AGE's, + Afrezza

Just think how public health deterioration could reverse if everyone appreciated, understood, and had access to the three components-----

But, society as a whole has to do something about access to good basic foods, and to make certain that everyone has the time for all of the trinity--plus walking, plus some kind of exercise---not work shift micromanagement, as initiated and perpetuated by Starbucks, a corporation that does not hesitate to imply moral superiority. Very curious.

Just imagine the possibilities. 

Foods High in AGEs
• Sugary items such as candy, cookies, cakes, soda, and pastries
• Processed foods, including packaged meats and cheese
• High-fat (especially red) meats
• Fats, including butter, margarine, and oil
• Fried foods

I guess my main take away from the article I posted regarding afrezza is controlling spikes in blood glucose via afrezza (or diet in the case of the article) might help avoid cancer. Yet people are worried afrezza causes cancer because inhaling carcinogens has been proven to cause lung cancer.

[cm5]

Probably the overall risks of degenerative disease, dementia, and cancer from the ongoing burden of unrelieved, constant inflammation are magnitudes exponentially higher relative to the very time limited in and out of the lungs Afrezza in Mannkind's Technosphere--


See this review, which liane has posted, www.academia.edu/3528846/TECHNOSPHERE_INSULIN_INHALER_A_REVIEW

I've posted this before, but I'll link to it again. It's a basic science study stating Afrezza does not alter the lung

function, pulmonary cell integrity, cell layer and not affect the cell proliferation of the lung cells.


mnkd.proboards.com/thread/406/technosphere-insulin-inhaler-review?page=1&scrollTo=2241


Read more: mnkd.proboards.com/thread/5200/cancer-over-popular-diabetes-drugs#ixzz4JWiFsf

And, see this study: Insulin lung deposition and clearance following Technosphere® insulin inhalation powder administration.
Pharm Res. 2011 Sep;28(9):2157-64. doi: 10.1007/s11095-011-0443-4. Epub 2011 Apr 14.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21491144

PURPOSE:

To determine distribution and deposition of Technosphere® Insulin (TI) inhalation powder and the rate of clearance of fumaryl diketopiperazine (FDKP; major component of Technosphere particles) and insulin from the lungs.

METHODS:
Deposition and distribution of (99m)pertechnetate adsorbed onto TI immediately after administration using the MedTone® inhaler was quantified by gamma-scintigraphy. Clearance from the lungs was studied in a second experiment by serial bronchoalveolar lavage (BAL) after administration of TI inhalation powder and assay of the recovered fluid for FDKP and insulin.

RESULTS:
Following inhalation, ~60% of radioactivity (adsorbed on TI) emitted from the inhaler was delivered to the lungs; the remainder of the emitted dose was swallowed. Clearance from the lung epithelial lining fluid (ELF) of FDKP and insulin have a half-life of ~1 hour.

CONCLUSION:

TI inhalation powder administered via the MedTone inhaler was uniformly distributed throughout the lungs; ~40% of the initial cartridge load reached the lungs. Insulin and FDKP are quickly cleared from the lungs, mainly by absorption into the systemic circulation. The terminal clearance half-life from the lung ELF, estimated from sequential BAL fluid measurements for both components, was ~1 hour. Since there is an overnight washout period, the potential for accumulation on chronic administration is minimal.

[cm5]

I remain curious----why do agedhippie, matt, now sophie. etc  all reply in concert, and to date, have never posted a single reference to a link, an article, a source for verification?

Just wondering, saying---

[sportsrancho]

Sept 6, 2016 19:55:37 GMT -5 cm5 said:

I remain curious----why do agedhippie, matt, now sophie. etc  all reply in concert, and to date, have never posted a single reference to a link, an article, a source for verification?

Just wondering, saying---

There's something else they don't do also:-))

[sophie]

mnkd.proboards.com/post/78324

see link above.

I'd be happy to explain anything that you felt needed a source. I believe matt has said he was a ceo of a small biotech, not sure what agedhippie's story is. I've acquired my knowledge over time from school and work experience. 

To be honest, most of what I know has become second nature such that I don't even know what's common knowledge and what's not. I would rather not hunt down links to prove my knowledge, but I may try to do so, depending on what is asked. Some things may be easier to find than others. Some things may be the application of my knowledge. If you read my link above, sometimes links are hard to find that will not only be reliable but also encapsulate the exact point I'm trying to convey. I will do my best. 

[sophie]

Sept 6, 2016 19:55:37 GMT -5 cm5 said:

I remain curious----why do agedhippie, matt, now sophie. etc  all reply in concert, and to date, have never posted a single reference to a link, an article, a source for verification?

Just wondering, saying---

Besides, I'm not sure why I'd have to explain any of what I said to an MD. Right? 


mnkd.proboards.com/post/67100