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Post by peppy on Feb 29, 2016 12:47:01 GMT -5
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Post by jerrys on Feb 29, 2016 12:57:52 GMT -5
I'm even more confused. I though tevryone already knew that FKDP linked to a drug could be administered by any route. It was only special because its dispersive properties provided a unique talent that made it particularly suitable for inhalation.
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Post by peppy on Feb 29, 2016 13:22:08 GMT -5
I'm even more confused. I though tevryone already knew that FKDP linked to a drug could be administered by any route. It was only special because its dispersive properties provided a unique talent that made it particularly suitable for inhalation. My understanding is the reason these peptides could not be taken orally is the ph of the stomach, ( Hydrogen atoms,) would damage the proteins, or peptides. MNKD seems to have patented "The FDKP salts, however, provide a local buffering effect that facilitates their dissolution in low pH. "
Additionally once in the blood stream, first pass liver. MNKD seems to want to use first pass liver with the oral insulin, and the units are so high, I am thinking that is for the first phase insulin response. screencast.com/t/ZaphFSR2qYT5
What I think I am reading. (I need the higher ups to correct me where I am wrong) A technosphere salt is encapsulating the insulin monomer, for delivery Insulin absorbed following oral administration also goes directly to the portal circulation. Thus, the oral route of insulin administration delivers insulin to its site of action in the liver, offering the potential to control glucose levels while limiting systemic exposure to insulin. Oral insulin delivery using a combination of insulin and the diacid form of FDKP is hindered by the poor solubility of the FDKP diacid in the low pH environment of the gastrointestinal tract. The FDKP salts, however, provide a local buffering effect that facilitates their dissolution in low pH.
Additionally, this patent names other proteins, peptides, that can be made oral, through the process. Do I have it correct?
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Post by beardawg on Feb 29, 2016 17:59:18 GMT -5
Combination drugs are possible.
Dikeopiperazine salt counter cations may be selected to produce salts having varying solubilities. These varying solubilities can be the result of differences in dissolution rate and/or intrinsic solubility. By controlling the rate of DKP salt dissolution, the rate of drug absorption from the DKP salt/drug combination can also be controlled to provide formulations having immediate and/or sustained release profiles. For example, sodium salts of organic compounds are characteristically highly soluble in biological systems, while calcium salts are characteristically only slightly soluble in biological systems. Thus, a formulation comprised of a DKP sodium salt/drug combination would provide immediate drug absorption, while a formulation comprised of a DKP calcium salt/drug combination would provide slower drug absorption. A formulation containing a combination of both of the latter formulations could be used to provide immediate drug absorption followed by a period of sustained absorption.
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I can think of any number of drugs that would benefit by a dual-release action. I was thinking of a combo basal and bolus insulin pill.
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 1, 2016 10:02:04 GMT -5
I was thinking of a combo basal and bolus insulin pill. I think a better one would be combined Metformin and basal. That would be an easy sell as it fits squarely into the standard of care.
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Post by suebeeee1 on Mar 1, 2016 10:12:30 GMT -5
I'm even more confused. I though tevryone already knew that FKDP linked to a drug could be administered by any route. It was only special because its dispersive properties provided a unique talent that made it particularly suitable for inhalation. My understanding is the reason these peptides could not be taken orally is the ph of the stomach, ( Hydrogen atoms,) would damage the proteins, or peptides. MNKD seems to have patented "The FDKP salts, however, provide a local buffering effect that facilitates their dissolution in low pH. "
Additionally once in the blood stream, first pass liver. MNKD seems to want to use first pass liver with the oral insulin, and the units are so high, I am thinking that is for the first phase insulin response. screencast.com/t/ZaphFSR2qYT5
What I think I am reading. (I need the higher ups to correct me where I am wrong) A technosphere salt is encapsulating the insulin monomer, for delivery Insulin absorbed following oral administration also goes directly to the portal circulation. Thus, the oral route of insulin administration delivers insulin to its site of action in the liver, offering the potential to control glucose levels while limiting systemic exposure to insulin. Oral insulin delivery using a combination of insulin and the diacid form of FDKP is hindered by the poor solubility of the FDKP diacid in the low pH environment of the gastrointestinal tract. The FDKP salts, however, provide a local buffering effect that facilitates their dissolution in low pH.
Additionally, this patent names other proteins, peptides, that can be made oral, through the process. Do I have it correct?
Peppy, I have no clue what you do for a living or what your background is, but I just want to say thank you from all if us "non science" people on the board. This helps me understand things I wouldn't even have considered.
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Post by prosper on Mar 1, 2016 14:17:59 GMT -5
I also think that it would be possible to develop a coating that is timed release and/or some chemical/ph type trigger that could allow us to swallow a pill to provide a long lasting insulin to eliminate injections completely and then maintained with Afrezza. Just speculating here as an engineer outside pharm, but following A for years now and knowing the methods used by Sam, et. al.
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Post by kbrion77 on Jun 8, 2016 15:46:43 GMT -5
I have been thinking about this thread a lot. I was basically dumbfounded when this patent was issued since to me it seemed like they were almost taking a step backwards with their drug delivery platform (seeing how they believe inhale delivery is the future). I am wondering if they are taking a page out of the Netflix business model. Netflix always labeled as disruptive innovation for their streaming technology still generates significant revenues from "older technology" being their DVD business.
If MNKD can establish a fast acting insulin pill (older technology) to capture the ever growing GLP-1 market (expected to reach $20BN by 2025) and offer an innovative and new way to administer insulin/other drugs via inhaling could we be talking about the Netflix of Biotech?
I truly believe there is no in between for MNKD. It is either going to be the investment of my lifetime or it's going down in a blaze of glory. This little biotech is either going to revolutionize diabetes and drug delivery or going to get squashed by Novo and the rest of the big boys.
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Post by peppy on Jun 8, 2016 19:17:35 GMT -5
I have been thinking about this thread a lot. I was basically dumbfounded when this patent was issued since to me it seemed like they were almost taking a step backwards with their drug delivery platform (seeing how they believe inhale delivery is the future). I am wondering if they are taking a page out of the Netflix business model. Netflix always labeled as disruptive innovation for their streaming technology still generates significant revenues from "older technology" being their DVD business. If MNKD can establish a fast acting insulin pill (older technology) to capture the ever growing GLP-1 market (expected to reach $20BN by 2025) and offer an innovative and new way to administer insulin/other drugs via inhaling could we be talking about the Netflix of Biotech? I truly believe there is no in between for MNKD. It is either going to be the investment of my lifetime or it's going down in a blaze of glory. This little biotech is either going to revolutionize diabetes and drug delivery or going to get squashed by Novo and the rest of the big boys. by memory when I looked at the patent, and in answer to the question.... I reasoned, perhaps wrong, that it may have to do with the high doses of insulin required in the titration of the by mouth product ?. I wondered the same.
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Post by tayl5 on Jun 9, 2016 0:07:51 GMT -5
We might be thinking of this all wrong. The objective may not be to deliver active insulin, just fragments. There is some clinical trial evidence that oral insulin delivery presents insulin fragments to the gut immune system that, over time, reverse an autoimmune attack on native insulin. It's the same approach that allergists use to reduce sensitivity to certain foods. Here's a link to a current trial: clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02580877 and another to a 2012 report: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120919083412.htm.
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