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Post by centralcoastinvestor on Jul 1, 2016 12:36:58 GMT -5
Don't think Sanofi really cares if they are sued by MannKind. Maybe the Justice department for some kind of unfair practices... They have a ton of lawyers and will just send to legal dept. For them it will be nothing. For MannKind it could be a huge drain on resources, not just financial but internal staff and also a big distraction in a small company. Ever been in a major lawsuit and get a set of interrogatories? They will "discover/paper them to death." Not good timing for a lawsuit. Best we can hope for is that MannKind gets a cash settlement of some kind and debt relief. Btw does anyone know what is going on with the other four or five similar lawsuits Sanofi is involved in with same kind of smaller companies? Nope me neither and that is my point... Just mho... The discovery process cuts both ways. Yes Sanofi could bury MannKind in paper during discovery. But because they are so big, it us highly likely they would release very unflattering documents (even after they sanitize everything) that could be very embarrassing. Particularly emails. People put stuff in emails that they never should. A trial is risky for both parties. Which is why 90% are settled before an actual trial. The contract calls for mandatory arbritration. I don't believe that has ever stopped anyone from suing anyway. I did write thread about why I think there will be a settlement awhile back.
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Post by agedhippie on Jul 1, 2016 17:41:23 GMT -5
The contract calls for mandatory arbritration. I don't believe that has ever stopped anyone from suing anyway. I did write thread about why I think there will be a settlement awhile back. The governing law for the contract is New York and they have strong protections around arbitration clauses. You could certainly file, but you will definitely lose at summary judgement. On top of that the arbitration panel is going to see it as an act of bad faith which will not help your case when it inevitably lands there.
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Post by centralcoastinvestor on Jul 1, 2016 18:41:40 GMT -5
The contract calls for mandatory arbritration. I don't believe that has ever stopped anyone from suing anyway. I did write thread about why I think there will be a settlement awhile back. The governing law for the contract is New York and they have strong protections around arbitration clauses. You could certainly file, but you will definitely lose at summary judgement. On top of that the arbitration panel is going to see it as an act of bad faith which will not help your case when it inevitably lands there. I believe you couldn't sue until you've exhausted the arbitration process. The judge would force each party back to arbtration hoping that would resolve the dispute. In other words, I think you would have to obtain a ruling from the arbritration process and then determine you were not satisfied and seek remedy through litigation.
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Post by agedhippie on Jul 1, 2016 21:48:46 GMT -5
The governing law for the contract is New York and they have strong protections around arbitration clauses. You could certainly file, but you will definitely lose at summary judgement. On top of that the arbitration panel is going to see it as an act of bad faith which will not help your case when it inevitably lands there. I believe you couldn't sue until you've exhausted the arbitration process. The judge would force each party back to arbitration hoping that would resolve the dispute. In other words, I think you would have to obtain a ruling from the arbitration process and then determine you were not satisfied and seek remedy through litigation. New York State law says that where there is a properly drawn arbitration clause that is as far as you can go. It's exceptionally difficult to break an arbitration clause under New York law which is just one reason why New York law is popular for commerce. If you want to use the courts then do not sign a contract with a binding arbitration clause under New York law in the first place. Your only way out to the courts is if the arbitration clause is badly drawn, and this one doesn't look like it is to me (I see a few of these although I am not a lawyer). That is the only action you can bring before the courts. If you bring any other action all the defense has to do is point at the arbitration clause and the case will be dismissed. Determine you are not satisfied by the arbitration and try for litigation - the case will be dismissed.
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Post by peppy on Jul 2, 2016 9:32:29 GMT -5
As for the pricing policy, if a label change is in the works recognizing Afrezza's faster onset of action (and/or designation as ultra-fast acting?), it could change the perception of Afrezza's value. So if MNKD is applying for a label change based on the clamp studies, I wouldn't be surprised if a price change is put on hold until after an FDA decision.My thoughts exactly. MNKD should be able to tell us after the 4th. The week of the 5th of July, I hope.
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Post by prosper on Jul 2, 2016 10:21:10 GMT -5
That being said, someone has to start the request for arbitration process. There are two directions for the timing in my opinion. 1. Start now and the facts that are in will determine outcome. The problem from our perspective is we can claim lack of sufficient effort on the part of SNY and it becomes a "he said, she said" argument with SNY claiming product wasn't accepted. or 2. We wait for Mike and team to show marked good results and increased rate of script count growth to prove SNY didn't put in the right effort.
Those that suggest debt relief as a possible exit should remember that the debt payment to SNY is many years in the future, and by then we will not even care about that small amount relative to our success, or we will most likely be out of business.
I vote for waiting and then going for the jugular when Mike and team have bases loaded and Mantle at bat.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 10:28:45 GMT -5
That being said, someone has to start the request for arbitration process. There are two directions for the timing in my opinion. 1. Start now and the facts that are in will determine outcome. The problem from our perspective is we can claim lack of sufficient effort on the part of SNY and it becomes a "he said, she said" argument with SNY claiming product wasn't accepted. or 2. We wait for Mike and team to show marked good results and increased rate of script count growth to prove SNY didn't put in the right effort. Those that suggest debt relief as a possible exit should remember that the debt payment to SNY is many years in the future, and by then we will not even care about that small amount relative to our success, or we will most likely be out of business. I vote for waiting and then going for the jugular when Mike and team have bases loaded and Mantle at bat. SNY management dropped the idea of commercializing Afrezza after management changes at executive level and they know it. So they might just hand over debt relief and get done with it. MNKD wrote off assets in order to extract some $$$ from SNY. But would SNY oblige? and the rest I dont know and dont like to speculate.
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Post by op2778 on Jul 2, 2016 11:39:00 GMT -5
Helo guys. I Was in ST once, but for some reason they put me off. Long Store, but Harryx could explain well. I know most of you are in Twitter too and like you, I'm a MNKD investor. That said, i always read your post very carefull. In this moment, I'm not interested in SNY deal (imho they will not make it easy to us). What I'm interested, is in the 50mm insulin put that MNKD execute to SNY. Someone has information about that? That money will help Castagna to execute sales strategy. Without that, MNKD financial position is really critical. Thanks
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Post by peppy on Jul 2, 2016 11:47:34 GMT -5
Helo guys. I Was in ST once, but for some reason they put me off. Long Store, but Harryx could explain well. I know most of you are in Twitter too and like you, I'm a MNKD investor. That said, i always read your post very carefull. In this moment, I'm not interested in SNY deal (imho they will not make it easy to us). What I'm interested, is in the 50mm insulin put that MNKD execute to SNY. Someone has information about that? That money will help Castagna to execute sales strategy. Without that, MNKD financial position is really critical. Thanks Tell me more.
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Post by op2778 on Jul 2, 2016 12:23:51 GMT -5
What do you want to know Lol. I'm a believer of Afrezza. Honestly, i hope that by now we will have others TS App, but until now nothing. The real value is TS, but If Afrezza could not be proved to be a blockbuster, well, probably Mr Al and all of us were wrong.
In MNKD story, there are a lot of shady chapters. Only time will tell If sun will shine or we will bury TS and Mr Al dream.
Sny sandbagged us? Conspiracy theory? I do believe they tried to do that. Unfortunately when SNY fired CEO that signed the deal with MNKD, probably mgmt had to take another kind of position. It's easy to say that now, but, they trusted SNY and here we are, playing last inning and we need to make a home run to stay alive.
best regards OP
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 12:31:47 GMT -5
What do you want to know Lol. I'm a believer of Afrezza. Honestly, i hope that by now we will have others TS App, but until now nothing. The real value is TS, but If Afrezza could not be proved to be a blockbuster, well, probably Mr Al and all of us were wrong. In MNKD story, there are a lot of shady chapters. Only time will tell If sun will shine or we will bury TS and Mr Al dream. Sny sandbagged us? Conspiracy theory? I do believe they tried to do that. Unfortunately when SNY fired CEO that signed the deal with MNKD, probably mgmt had to take another kind of position. It's easy to say that now, but, they trusted SNY and here we are, playing last inning and we need to make a home run to stay alive. best regards OP peppy had highlighted this in your original post : What I'm interested, is in the 50mm insulin put that MNKD execute to SNY. Someone has information about that?
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Post by mnkdfann on Jul 2, 2016 13:17:43 GMT -5
I'll go out on a limb and say don't hold your breathe for any good news. I'm 99.99% (heck, I'll say 100%) sure it is already factored into the share price. mnkd.proboards.com/thread/5556/surprise-good-progress-announced-twitterExcerpt 10-Q Filing: "Under the terms of the Sanofi Supply Agreement, in the event that Sanofi terminates the Sanofi License Agreement for various reasons (including the reasons cited in its notice of termination to the Company), then upon written notice from the Company within 30 days following the termination date, Sanofi is obligated to purchase up to $50 million of the Company’s insulin inventory as a percentage of each lot received or receivable by the Company (the “Insulin Put”). On April 14, 2016, the Company provided Sanofi with written notice that it was exercising the Insulin Put. The Company and Sanofi are currently discussing the schedule of purchases and deliveries pursuant to the Insulin Put." (Aside, how can someone have 1000s of posts and spend countless hours on this board and not know what op2778 was talking about? Unless they just meant, is there a news update on the situation.)
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Post by agedhippie on Jul 2, 2016 13:38:47 GMT -5
I'll go out on a limb and say don't hold your breathe for any good news. I'm 99.99% (heck, I'll say 100%) sure it is already factored into the share price. mnkd.proboards.com/thread/5556/surprise-good-progress-announced-twitterExcerpt 10-Q Filing: "Under the terms of the Sanofi Supply Agreement, in the event that Sanofi terminates the Sanofi License Agreement for various reasons (including the reasons cited in its notice of termination to the Company), then upon written notice from the Company within 30 days following the termination date, Sanofi is obligated to purchase up to $50 million of the Company’s insulin inventory as a percentage of each lot received or receivable by the Company (the “Insulin Put”). On April 14, 2016, the Company provided Sanofi with written notice that it was exercising the Insulin Put. The Company and Sanofi are currently discussing the schedule of purchases and deliveries pursuant to the Insulin Put." (Aside, how can someone have 1000s of posts and spend countless hours on this board and not know what op2778 was talking about? Unless they just meant, is there a news update on the situation.) What you actually want is the Amphistar supply contract and not the 10Q. The supply contract commits Mannkind to a minimum annual commitment as well as an minimum commitment over the life of the contract. The "insulin put" says that Mannkind can redirect up to the lesser of 65% or $50 million of the Amphistar insulin commitment to Sanofi. There is no money for Mannkind in this since it's a pass-through transaction. The clause is there to mitigate Mannkind's exposure to the Amphistar contract in exactly the sort of situation we are in now.
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Post by mnkdfann on Jul 2, 2016 14:36:56 GMT -5
So it is even more of a non-event than I thought. I just hope 'newbie' poster OP did not invest on the belief there was money forthcoming from the Put.
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Post by op2778 on Jul 2, 2016 21:15:59 GMT -5
Thanks for explanation. Lol. Dont worry about my investment. Fortunately i was lucky and invested when stock Was at 0.90-1-1.50 and so on. I'm not one of the original 300 that invested when FDA approved Afrezza.
Let's hope Castagna plan will works.
BTW, i do think some money is coming in, If not, be ready for a R/S because we will not have too much safe vest under our sit.
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