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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 10:42:23 GMT -5
wow he sounds nervous is something coming? Well Mr. GS Plant ๐, I've been around this equity, and this board, long enough to say that you will not be successful at your attempt to loosen my grip on my shares. Best of luck to you on your goal of a lower sp. At least all here now understand your motivation for comments like the one you posted here. Yeah, that's the ticket..๐ Cool longs....lol. .jealous?!? ๐๐ Jealous of not being down 8% on top of dead money for the past month. Sorry not even in the slightest. You guys can keep your thumbs up club lol
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 10:47:03 GMT -5
FWIW, my first thought while listening was that Matt was reading from the script as if trying to reign in his emotions. I still believe that we are only a few days/weeks away from the announcement of a new CEO and I happen to think it will be DeSisto, whose non-compete clause expires September 1, 2016. As I have previously posted, it's my opinion that when the BoD had to withdraw its offer to employ Duane M. DeSisto as its President and Chief Executive Officer as a consequence of objections raised by Insulet Corporation, the former employer of Mr. DeSisto, that the employment of Mr. DeSisto by MannKind would violate Insuletโs non-competition agreement with Mr. DeSisto (in effect until September 17, 2016) that Matt may have been asked by the BoD to become the interim CEO until DeSisto could be hired. If DeSisto is hired, then Pfeffer would remain the Chief Financial Officer for MannKind Corporation, as well as his position with Second Sight, another Mann-originated company. DeSisto would tell me there are things lined up as far as financing goes but as Matt said yesterday it has to be at a point that the company has a chance to be successful. He was clearly rattled on the call and who wouldnt be. I can only imagine the abuse he took from longs through email after the last time Mike spoke for him. That would rattle the best public speaker, but I am just spreading FUD.
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Post by mnholdem on Aug 9, 2016 10:47:34 GMT -5
FWIW, my first thought while listening was that Matt was reading from the script as if trying to reign in his emotions. I still believe that we are only a few days/weeks away from the announcement of a new CEO and I happen to think it will be DeSisto, whose non-compete clause expires September 1, 2016.make that September 17, 2016 I just fixed the typo, which was correct farther down in the body of my post. Thanks.
Tiny keyboards... ugh!
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Post by BlueCat on Aug 9, 2016 10:58:43 GMT -5
That would be an interesting gambit.
Desisto is a name, but the FUD-machine was at work on it last round.
I would be cautious/concerned at this stage on that - It would be a distraction from their need to focus hard on moving those script numbers now. And would introduce more uncertainty into the market about the company/stock as Matt (if I correctly recall) had essentially said 'no more changes' after the last fiasco with Desisto.
If they wanted to make that change, better once the new team establishes a strong upward trend for a period of time to build confidence. Then bill Matt as a 'turnaround CEO' who succeeded - proclaim victory - and bring Desisto then as a builder CEO to take the company through dramatic growth stage. And is that Desisto's MO? Sorry. Can't remember. I need that formulation of Afrezza to help memory, I think.
If they swap now with all the above, it would likely suggest there are still problems within the company, rather than the story they have presented - that they've just started to own their destiny, they are focused, and just need time.
I'd say wait. Til sometime 2017 probably 2H.
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Post by dcassidy1618a on Aug 9, 2016 11:04:12 GMT -5
That would be an interesting gambit. Desisto is a name, but the FUD-machine was at work on it last round. I would be cautious/concerned at this stage on that - It would be a distraction from their need to focus hard on moving those script numbers now. And would introduce more uncertainty into the market about the company/stock as Matt (if I correctly recall) had essentially said 'no more changes' after the last fiasco with Desisto. If they wanted to make that change, better once the new team establishes a strong upward trend for a period of time to build confidence. Then bill Matt as a 'turnaround CEO' who succeeded - proclaim victory - and bring Desisto then as a builder CEO to take the company through dramatic growth stage. And is that Desisto's MO? Sorry. Can't remember. I need that formulation of Afrezza to help memory, I think. If they swap now with all the above, it would likely suggest there are still problems within the company, rather than the story they have presented - that they've just started to own their destiny, they are focused, and just need time. I'd say wait. Til sometime 2017 probably 2H. I agree. The one thing the company appears to need more than anything is focus. I'm sorry but that CC as provided by the transcript was simply splayed out all over the place. They appear to be trying to do a dozen plus things at once, and just hoping that maybe a few will kick in and have an effect.
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Post by BlueCat on Aug 9, 2016 11:07:16 GMT -5
That would be an interesting gambit. Desisto is a name, but the FUD-machine was at work on it last round. I would be cautious/concerned at this stage on that - It would be a distraction from their need to focus hard on moving those script numbers now. And would introduce more uncertainty into the market about the company/stock as Matt (if I correctly recall) had essentially said 'no more changes' after the last fiasco with Desisto. If they wanted to make that change, better once the new team establishes a strong upward trend for a period of time to build confidence. Then bill Matt as a 'turnaround CEO' who succeeded - proclaim victory - and bring Desisto then as a builder CEO to take the company through dramatic growth stage. And is that Desisto's MO? Sorry. Can't remember. I need that formulation of Afrezza to help memory, I think. If they swap now with all the above, it would likely suggest there are still problems within the company, rather than the story they have presented - that they've just started to own their destiny, they are focused, and just need time. I'd say wait. Til sometime 2017 probably 2H. I agree. The one thing the company appears to need more than anything is focus. I'm sorry but that CC as provided by the transcript was simply splayed out all over the place. They appear to be trying to do a dozen plus things at once, and just hoping that maybe a few will kick in and have an effect. I haven't listened, but it seemed to me they are really 'deep in it'. Primarily focused on bringing Afrezza to market, and keeping TS from going completely stale. With a small company on essentially shoestring budget at this point of turnaround, the cc was essentially what I expected. I do expect more from them next quarter.
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Post by agedhippie on Aug 9, 2016 12:05:49 GMT -5
Your disbelief is justified We know that Medicaid pays just under $33 per pen so $19 equates to 175u of insulin which is a huge amount (I use 25u per day which is fairly typical). To put this into context, assuming 12u cartridges which is the cheapest way to do it, the Afrezza cost for 175u would be $40 again based on Medicaid pricing. I think the insurer pays less less than $3 per day for my insulin. Lets have a look at your argument: A) We know.. : How do you know? B) Medicaid: According to Mikes Pie-Chart Medicaid is 2% of the whole pie. Why do you take Medicaid? C) Mike is refering to WAC, which is the list price, so no discounts etc. If your statement $33 per pen is correct you compare wrong numbers if Medicaid gets discounts. D) Mike stated that the WAC (not including discounts) is $3 per cartridge. I do not know the multiplier for Afrezza compared to what you take but lets take 1.3. So you need 25 u per day and you want to use 12u cartridges -> 25 * 1.3 /12 *$3 = $8.13 per day based on WAC. E) In your last sentence you again compared WAC to your claim about real costs for Medicaid. Does Medicaid gets no discount? E) Finally you stated "I think.. the insurer pays less. " You started with "We know". What changed in between? Do you know or do you think you know the real costs. A) What do I know? I know that in the formulary thread mnholden posted a really useful link to the New York Medicaid price table that shows the prices for all their Medicaid drugs including Afrezza and Humalog. B) Why did I chose Medicaid? Because the table I have is for Medicaid. However as far as I am aware the pricing between Medicaid and Medicare is identical. C) I am not going by the WAC, I am going by what is on the NY price table which is what NY pays. $33 is a discounted price (its actually slightly less) for a pen which seems right since that makes a pack of 5 pens about $155 vs the $490 that a pharmacy charges. The same table that shows a pen at $33 shows a mixed pack of 60x8u / 30x12u cartridges at an average price of $3.50 each. D) A cartridge costs $3. What size cartridge because the price varies between the pack above at $3.50 per cartridge, and the 4u pack at $2.50 per cartridge? If you are using 25u of insulin 12u cartridges are useless. That 25u is for Humalog and I made it up out of 3u breakfast, 7u lunch, 7u dinner, 4u misc (corrections, snacks etc, and 1u per shot primining. If I was using Afrezza I would probably use 4u + 8u + 8u + 4u which works out at marginally under $3 per cartridge or $12 the lot. E) I have not looked at the WAC, this is the MRA cost off the NY price sheet. F) We know - I think. We know the Medicaid price since we have that, I think an insurer will pay the same or less.
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Post by babaoriley on Aug 9, 2016 12:19:06 GMT -5
DeSisto issue is interesting. If he does join in a month or two, without some big signing bonus, it certainly is a sign that he also feels the turnaround will be successful. I wouldn't mind that message getting out there. On the other hand, they do have a certain direction now, and we don't need someone coming in and changing that which could prove very inefficient and we literally can't afford inefficiencies these days. It is of course, possible that DeSisto has been kept in the loop all along in anticipation of his joining and perhaps even had some input in what MNKD is doing (omg, there, I've said it!).
If I had to give odds, I'd say 70/30 against him joining anytime soon.
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Post by therealisaching on Aug 9, 2016 12:49:21 GMT -5
Lets have a look at your argument: A) We know.. : How do you know? B) Medicaid: According to Mikes Pie-Chart Medicaid is 2% of the whole pie. Why do you take Medicaid? C) Mike is refering to WAC, which is the list price, so no discounts etc. If your statement $33 per pen is correct you compare wrong numbers if Medicaid gets discounts. D) Mike stated that the WAC (not including discounts) is $3 per cartridge. I do not know the multiplier for Afrezza compared to what you take but lets take 1.3. So you need 25 u per day and you want to use 12u cartridges -> 25 * 1.3 /12 *$3 = $8.13 per day based on WAC. E) In your last sentence you again compared WAC to your claim about real costs for Medicaid. Does Medicaid gets no discount? E) Finally you stated "I think.. the insurer pays less. " You started with "We know". What changed in between? Do you know or do you think you know the real costs. A) What do I know? I know that in the formulary thread mnholden posted a really useful link to the New York Medicaid price table that shows the prices for all their Medicaid drugs including Afrezza and Humalog. B) Why did I chose Medicaid? Because the table I have is for Medicaid. However as far as I am aware the pricing between Medicaid and Medicare is identical. C) I am not going by the WAC, I am going by what is on the NY price table which is what NY pays. $33 is a discounted price (its actually slightly less) for a pen which seems right since that makes a pack of 5 pens about $155 vs the $490 that a pharmacy charges. The same table that shows a pen at $33 shows a mixed pack of 60x8u / 30x12u cartridges at an average price of $3.50 each. D) A cartridge costs $3. What size cartridge because the price varies between the pack above at $3.50 per cartridge, and the 4u pack at $2.50 per cartridge? If you are using 25u of insulin 12u cartridges are useless. That 25u is for Humalog and I made it up out of 3u breakfast, 7u lunch, 7u dinner, 4u misc (corrections, snacks etc, and 1u per shot primining. If I was using Afrezza I would probably use 4u + 8u + 8u + 4u which works out at marginally under $3 per cartridge or $12 the lot. E) I have not looked at the WAC, this is the MRA cost off the NY price sheet. F) We know - I think. We know the Medicaid price since we have that, I think an insurer will pay the same or less. agedhippie - repsectfully, I'm not sure I agree with your math.
per the link NY caid is paying $33 for 100 units of humalog or $3/unit.
Roughly the same as afrezza. Taking the 60 * 8 and 30 * 12 unit configuration that would be 940 units. They are paying $3.50 per cartridge on this configuration or $315. 940 units for $315 = $2.98/unit
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Post by nuklerfizzacist on Aug 9, 2016 12:49:51 GMT -5
Well Mr. GS Plant ๐, I've been around this equity, and this board, long enough to say that you will not be successful at your attempt to loosen my grip on my shares. Best of luck to you on your goal of a lower sp. At least all here now understand your motivation for comments like the one you posted here. Yeah, that's the ticket..๐ Cool longs....lol. .jealous?!? ๐๐ Jealous of not being down 8% on top of dead money for the past month. Sorry not even in the slightest. You guys can keep your thumbs up club lol I think it's just fine that you've traded in and out to get to wherever it is you say you're at., I think it's also fine that we obviously less sophisticated investors (as seemingly compared to you?) have taken a different tack. I will tell you this: i sleep well at night, don't obsess over this one investment, and generally read this forum for the good overview, both pos and neg. You have been exposed for using it for other reasons. You write nervously. Signed, a member of the now deemed, cool long thumbs up club. ...btw, what's your club's name?
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Post by slugworth008 on Aug 9, 2016 12:52:06 GMT -5
FWIW, my first thought while listening was that Matt was reading from the script as if trying to reign in his emotions. I still believe that we are only a few days/weeks away from the announcement of a new CEO and I happen to think it will be DeSisto, whose non-compete clause expires September 1, 2016. As I have previously posted, it's my opinion that when the BoD had to withdraw its offer to employ Duane M. DeSisto as its President and Chief Executive Officer as a consequence of objections raised by Insulet Corporation, the former employer of Mr. DeSisto, that the employment of Mr. DeSisto by MannKind would violate Insuletโs non-competition agreement with Mr. DeSisto (in effect until September 17, 2016) that Matt may have been asked by the BoD to become the interim CEO until DeSisto could be hired. If DeSisto is hired, then Pfeffer would remain the Chief Financial Officer for MannKind Corporation, as well as his position with Second Sight, another Mann-originated company. DeSisto would tell me there are things lined up as far as financing goes but as Matt said yesterday it has to be at a point that the company has a chance to be successful. He was clearly rattled on the call and who wouldnt be. I can only imagine the abuse he took from longs through email after the last time Mike spoke for him. That would rattle the best public speaker, but I am just spreading FUD. It's your honesty I most respect.
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Post by agedhippie on Aug 9, 2016 13:17:21 GMT -5
agedhippie - repsectfully, I'm not sure I agree with your math.
per the link NY caid is paying $33 for 100 units of humalog or $3/unit.
Roughly the same as afrezza. Taking the 60 * 8 and 30 * 12 unit configuration that would be 940 units. They are paying $3.50 per cartridge on this configuration or $315. 940 units for $315 = $2.98/unit
Nuts! You are right. That will teach me not to look at the unit column properly. How embarrassing he says retiring red faced.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 14:24:15 GMT -5
Downgrade from Morgan and that **** at Piper. Anyone wager they both had questions but MNKD did not take them?
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Post by slugworth008 on Aug 9, 2016 16:05:07 GMT -5
Downgrade from Morgan and that **** at Piper. Anyone wager they both had questions but MNKD did not take them? Oh boo - and boo on you.
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Post by mnkdfann on Aug 9, 2016 16:24:04 GMT -5
Downgrade from Morgan and that **** at Piper. Anyone wager they both had questions but MNKD did not take them? Are these NEW downgrades? Downgrades SINCE the conference call? Are you suggesting they downgraded because their feelings were hurt because MNKD did not take their questions? Personally, I think analyst interest in the call was probably minimal and that the number of questions reflected how many analysts were participating.
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