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Post by fiddler on Oct 10, 2016 10:21:17 GMT -5
My endo friend says Afrezza and Humalog are about the same after you figure in all the cost. Agreed .. who cares about $ when it comes to convenience and health.. I am just correcting the logic of the numbers not to skew either way.. Diabetics have no choice but to care about "$" since their illness costs so much and since insurers constantly throw them curve balls renegotiating deals with different manufacturers so that one week one brand of test strips is tier 1 and the next week it's not covered at all. Convenience and health matters to insurance companies only if you can show they will improve their bottom lines.
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Post by mnholdem on Oct 10, 2016 12:50:34 GMT -5
It seems unfair to compare Afrezza cartridges to the competition by using doses that don't exist. MannKind doesn't make an adjustable-dose cartridge, after all. Why the cost of a 12-unit Afrezza cartridge is being compared to a 9-unit RAA insulin injection escapes me. here .. you too must have missed it. So to keep it simple and an equivalent case, a user taking 4 units - 3 times a day 1250 units translates to 104 days of insulin ( using your post for $ - Novolog: $541 for 1500 units (1250 usable) = $.43 per unit )
in case of afrezza that would be .. user would need 3.46 boxes of 4 unit 90 pack cartridge and to match novolog price of $541 - each box should be priced --> $156.You are correct. I missed that post, so I went to work - you know me (chuckle) - and came up with some additional package comparisons. Using the GoodRx price finder, I selecting CVS/Target prices and then, using your same approach, came up with the following:
Novolog Pkg 5 x 3ml pens (100 units/ml) = 1250 usable units @ $513 w coupon (CVS price) = $0.41 /unit
Afrezza Pkg 60x8u+30x12U = 840 usable units @ $344 w coupon (CVS price) = (1.5 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.41 / unit Afrezza Pkg 30x4u + 60x8U = 600 usable units @ $293 w coupon (CVS price) = (2.1 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.49 / unit Afrezza Pkg 60x4u + 30x8U = 480 usable units @ $273 w coupon (CVS price) = (2.6 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.57 / unit Afrezza Pkg 90x4u = 360 usable units @ $246 w coupon (CVS price) = (3.47 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.68 / unit
With this exercise, it becomes readily apparent how packaging cost for the various pack combinations affects Afrezza pricing. The 4 unit 90 cartridge pack that was selected for comparison in the earlier post represents the worst-case scenario, while Afrezza's 840-unit combination matches Novolog price of $0.41 / unit.
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One could argue that Afrezza pricing is comparable to Novolog 5 x 3ml pack but it would be a technicality, since only the 840-unit package has the equivalent pricing.
Notwithstanding any other cost associated with the injectable RAA insulin Novolog - I believe those are important, but I won't beat that dead horse any more - it would appear that MannKind's various configuration are priced higher.
Pricing sources: www.goodrx.com/novolog www.goodrx.com/afrezza
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 12:58:54 GMT -5
here .. you too must have missed it. So to keep it simple and an equivalent case, a user taking 4 units - 3 times a day 1250 units translates to 104 days of insulin ( using your post for $ - Novolog: $541 for 1500 units (1250 usable) = $.43 per unit )
in case of afrezza that would be .. user would need 3.46 boxes of 4 unit 90 pack cartridge and to match novolog price of $541 - each box should be priced --> $156.You are correct. I missed that post, so I went to work - you know me (chuckle) - and came up with some additional package comparisons. Using the GoodRx price finder, I selecting CVS/Target prices and then, using your same approach, came up with the following:
Novolog Pkg 5 x 3ml pens (100 units/ml) = 1250 usable units @ $513 w coupon (CVS price) = $0.41 /unit
Afrezza Pkg 60x8u+30x12U = 840 usable units @ $344 w coupon (CVS price) = (1.5 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.41 / unit Afrezza Pkg 30x4u + 60x8U = 600 usable units @ $293 w coupon (CVS price) = (2.1 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.49 / unit Afrezza Pkg 60x4u + 30x8U = 480 usable units @ $273 w coupon (CVS price) = (2.6 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.57 / unit Afrezza Pkg 90x4u = 360 usable units @ $246 w coupon (CVS price) = (3.47 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.68 / unit
With this exercise, it becomes readily apparent how packaging cost for the various pack combinations affects Afrezza pricing. The 4 unit 90 cartridge pack that was selected for comparison in the earlier post represents the worst-case scenario, while Afrezza's 840-unit combination matches Novolog price of $0.41 / unit.
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One could argue that Afrezza pricing is comparable to Novolog 5 x 3ml pack but it would be a technicality, since only with the 840-unit package qualifies for that argument.
Notwithstanding any other cost associated with the injectable RAA insulin Novolog - I won't beat that dead horse any more - it would appear that MannKind's various configuration are priced higher.
Pricing sources: www.goodrx.com/novolog www.goodrx.com/afrezza
I 100% disagree with your comment above and the 4unit catridge pack is the best to compare apples to apples ( since both pens and Afrezza can be used in 4 unit config - there by eliminating the round up needed in using Afrezza ) what good is it to the payor if Afrezza is priced at .01 per unit and is available in 8 unit catridge when user needs 5 units? hence 4 unit is good comparision. Run 8 units and they are more closer ?
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Post by wgreystone on Oct 10, 2016 14:25:40 GMT -5
The bottom line is: without insurance coverage in par with Novolog, doctors will have no motivation to actively prescribe Afrezza. MNKD needs to either improve the insurance coverage or drive up patient demand soon. Not much time left for MNKD to try out different tactics.
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Post by agedhippie on Oct 10, 2016 15:43:36 GMT -5
You are correct. I missed that post, so I went to work - you know me (chuckle) - and came up with some additional package comparisons. Using the GoodRx price finder, I selecting CVS/Target prices and then, using your same approach, came up with the following:
Novolog Pkg 5 x 3ml pens (100 units/ml) = 1250 usable units @ $513 w coupon (CVS price) = $0.41 /unit
Afrezza Pkg 60x8u+30x12U = 840 usable units @ $344 w coupon (CVS price) = (1.5 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.41 / unit Afrezza Pkg 30x4u + 60x8U = 600 usable units @ $293 w coupon (CVS price) = (2.1 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.49 / unit Afrezza Pkg 60x4u + 30x8U = 480 usable units @ $273 w coupon (CVS price) = (2.6 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.57 / unit Afrezza Pkg 90x4u = 360 usable units @ $246 w coupon (CVS price) = (3.47 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.68 / unit
With this exercise, it becomes readily apparent how packaging cost for the various pack combinations affects Afrezza pricing. The 4 unit 90 cartridge pack that was selected for comparison in the earlier post represents the worst-case scenario, while Afrezza's 840-unit combination matches Novolog price of $0.41 / unit.
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One could argue that Afrezza pricing is comparable to Novolog 5 x 3ml pack but it would be a technicality, since only with the 840-unit package qualifies for that argument.
Notwithstanding any other cost associated with the injectable RAA insulin Novolog - I won't beat that dead horse any more - it would appear that MannKind's various configuration are priced higher.
Pricing sources: www.goodrx.com/novolog www.goodrx.com/afrezza
I 100% disagree with your comment above and the 4unit catridge pack is the best to compare apples to apples ( since both pens and Afrezza can be used in 4 unit config - there by eliminating the round up needed in using Afrezza ) what good is it to the payor if Afrezza is priced at .01 per unit and is available in 8 unit catridge when user needs 5 units? hence 4 unit is good comparision. Run 8 units and they are more closer ? If you want the Type 1 view then I would expect the 30x4u + 60x8U pack to be the most popular. Afrezza seems to run a bit low (maybe 3:4) vs Humalog so that pack will cover one small meal and two normal. I would like a box of 4u stashed somewhere to dip into for corrections, snacks, etc.
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Post by anderson on Oct 10, 2016 15:55:05 GMT -5
here .. you too must have missed it. So to keep it simple and an equivalent case, a user taking 4 units - 3 times a day 1250 units translates to 104 days of insulin ( using your post for $ - Novolog: $541 for 1500 units (1250 usable) = $.43 per unit )
in case of afrezza that would be .. user would need 3.46 boxes of 4 unit 90 pack cartridge and to match novolog price of $541 - each box should be priced --> $156.You are correct. I missed that post, so I went to work - you know me (chuckle) - and came up with some additional package comparisons. Using the GoodRx price finder, I selecting CVS/Target prices and then, using your same approach, came up with the following:
Novolog Pkg 5 x 3ml pens (100 units/ml) = 1250 usable units @ $513 w coupon (CVS price) = $0.41 /unit
Afrezza Pkg 60x8u+30x12U = 840 usable units @ $344 w coupon (CVS price) = (1.5 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.41 / unit Afrezza Pkg 30x4u + 60x8U = 600 usable units @ $293 w coupon (CVS price) = (2.1 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.49 / unit Afrezza Pkg 60x4u + 30x8U = 480 usable units @ $273 w coupon (CVS price) = (2.6 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.57 / unit Afrezza Pkg 90x4u = 360 usable units @ $246 w coupon (CVS price) = (3.47 Afrezza Pkgs ~ 1250 units) = $0.68 / unit
With this exercise, it becomes readily apparent how packaging cost for the various pack combinations affects Afrezza pricing. The 4 unit 90 cartridge pack that was selected for comparison in the earlier post represents the worst-case scenario, while Afrezza's 840-unit combination matches Novolog price of $0.41 / unit.
---
One could argue that Afrezza pricing is comparable to Novolog 5 x 3ml pack but it would be a technicality, since only the 840-unit package has the equivalent pricing.
Notwithstanding any other cost associated with the injectable RAA insulin Novolog - I believe those are important, but I won't beat that dead horse any more - it would appear that MannKind's various configuration are priced higher.
Pricing sources: www.goodrx.com/novolog www.goodrx.com/afrezza
Do the pens come with needles as well or is that extra?
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Post by mnholdem on Oct 10, 2016 15:57:05 GMT -5
agedhippieThat seems to be the case with many of the T1's who have been blogging their results. 8 units with a 4-unit follow up for larger meals or for snacks. One exception seems to be Editor Mike Hoskins, whose doses of RAA insulin are amazingly large and who uses Afrezza primarily for corrections.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 15:59:43 GMT -5
That seems to be the case with many of the T1's who have been blogging their results. 8 units with a 4-unit follow up for larger meals or for snacks. One exception seems to be Editor Mike Hoskins, whose doses of RAA insulin are amazingly large and who uses Afrezza primarily for corrections. Mike is a mystery man...Cant seem to agree Afrezza is it and finds ways not to post about his good results with Afrezza. Trying to be nice to his advertisers? $hit talks
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Post by agedhippie on Oct 10, 2016 16:27:07 GMT -5
agedhippie That seems to be the case with many of the T1's who have been blogging their results. 8 units with a 4-unit follow up for larger meals or for snacks. One exception seems to be Editor Mike Hoskins, whose doses of RAA insulin are amazingly large and who uses Afrezza primarily for corrections. I reckon 8u will be the most used. It's surprisingly difficult to eat a meal and need only a 4u - with RAA most of my meals are between 5 and 7u. I suspect that Mike has some insulin resistance which is not uncommon in Type 1, although not to the level of Type 2 insulin resistance.
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Post by cedafuntennis on Oct 10, 2016 16:33:55 GMT -5
So then why would MNKD not come up with a 6u cartridge which they could price similar to the 4u as insulin is not that expensive and the rest of the costs involved would be the same as for the 4u?
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Post by mannmade on Oct 10, 2016 19:38:33 GMT -5
So then why would MNKD not come up with a 6u cartridge which they could price similar to the 4u as insulin is not that expensive and the rest of the costs involved would be the same as for the 4u? Time and expense it takes to get approved by FDA, change label, manufacturing process and education when not considered critical at this time. Think a 2U would be more appropriate for now if were going to create another dosage size.
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Post by agedhippie on Oct 10, 2016 19:40:25 GMT -5
So then why would MNKD not come up with a 6u cartridge which they could price similar to the 4u as insulin is not that expensive and the rest of the costs involved would be the same as for the 4u? Time and expense it takes to get approved by FDA, change label, manufacturing process and education when not considered critical at this time. Think a 2U would be more appropriate for now if were going to create another dosage size. A 2u cartridge would definitely be more useful than a 6u.
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Post by sportsrancho on Oct 11, 2016 20:21:10 GMT -5
NatesNotes sparkrov @rooksleanne essentially, it appears $MNKD (via RLS) has gotten involved in another "niche" market with limited potential ;-) Oct 11, 2016
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