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Post by agedhippie on Dec 22, 2016 8:22:33 GMT -5
It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a successful consumer product launch without advertising. Doctors will not create the demand for Afrezza; the demand has to be created by the consumer. MNKD knows this. Advertising on today's media would create instant, high volume interest which would in turn translate into consumer to doctor interaction and demand. MNKD wants the RXs right where they are which in turn keeps the pps right where it is. They are waiting for their milestones to materialize while keeping the golden egg on life support. I probably shouldn't rise to the bait but still... In the case of insulin doctors absolutely do create the demand. virtually nobody goes to a doctor and says, "Let's try insulin". Almost all people are dragged screaming and kicking to insulin whether that is because they don't want to admit that their Type 2 has got that bad, or because they are Type 1 and there is no option. So why do companies advertise insulin at all? Noticed how almost all the adverts are about basal insulin? This is the same principle that car manufacturers advertise, there is no expectation of an immediate sale but when the time comes they want you to remember the name. The problem for Afrezza is that it is not basal insulin so the conversation goes like this... Doctor: It's time for once a day insulin Patient: What about that inhaled insulin? It looks really good. Doctor: Ah that is mealtime insulin and your diabetes is not that bad yet, this is a once a day shot like your GLP-1, we just swap GLP-1 for insulin and it's the same routine as today. Patient: Phew! That was easy. Everyone is happy. The obstructions to sales are: - Insurance. Poor cover means that doctors don't want to write a prescription that cannot be filled. - Risks to lungs - the trials to prove there is no risk are in the future meanwhile any doctor who is risk adverse can point at the FDA requirement and ask if you are happy to take the risk with your lungs. - How well does it work? Put a couple of keen patients on it and wait a year. If things go well slowly add more of your more motivated patients. - Trials data. It is no better (marginally worse) than existing treatments. Advertising is largely pointless until insurance and endos are fixed.
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Post by sportsrancho on Dec 22, 2016 8:39:20 GMT -5
There are a few Endo's that are top prescribers. But in every case I have heard of the patient or the child has had to ask the Endo for Afrezza. The Endo has not offered it. How do you fix a Endo? IMO it's patient demand.
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Post by saxcmann on Dec 22, 2016 9:41:19 GMT -5
It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a successful consumer product launch without advertising. Doctors will not create the demand for Afrezza; the demand has to be created by the consumer. MNKD knows this. Advertising on today's media would create instant, high volume interest which would in turn translate into consumer to doctor interaction and demand. MNKD wants the RXs right where they are which in turn keeps the pps right where it is. They are waiting for their milestones to materialize while keeping the golden egg on life support. I probably shouldn't rise to the bait but still... In the case of insulin doctors absolutely do create the demand. virtually nobody goes to a doctor and says, "Let's try insulin". Almost all people are dragged screaming and kicking to insulin whether that is because they don't want to admit that their Type 2 has got that bad, or because they are Type 1 and there is no option. So why do companies advertise insulin at all? Noticed how almost all the adverts are about basal insulin? This is the same principle that car manufacturers advertise, there is no expectation of an immediate sale but when the time comes they want you to remember the name. The problem for Afrezza is that it is not basal insulin so the conversation goes like this... Doctor: It's time for once a day insulin Patient: What about that inhaled insulin? It looks really good. Doctor: Ah that is mealtime insulin and your diabetes is not that bad yet, this is a once a day shot like your GLP-1, we just swap GLP-1 for insulin and it's the same routine as today. Patient: Phew! That was easy. Everyone is happy. The obstructions to sales are: - Insurance. Poor cover means that doctors don't want to write a prescription that cannot be filled. - Risks to lungs - the trials to prove there is no risk are in the future meanwhile any doctor who is risk adverse can point at the FDA requirement and ask if you are happy to take the risk with your lungs. - How well does it work? Put a couple of keen patients on it and wait a year. If things go well slowly add more of your more motivated patients. - Trials data. It is no better (marginally worse) than existing treatments. Advertising is largely pointless until insurance and endos are fixed. I think you're half right. Yes, Endos must understand the drug and willing to prescribe it. Yes,Insurance coverage must cover it. Yes,your conversation above is one of many possible conversations patients might have with their doctor. Yes, afrezza is not for everyone! But that's only half the story. Through targeted advertising and the right tv commercial strategy we must build patient demand and promote awareness for the product. Right now we have little awareness that inhaled insulin is even a choice! More conversations about afrezza should create more scripts down the road! Also your comment about lung risk. Question for you...at what point do we have enough data to suggest cancer risk is not there? So far we have close to 10,000 patients that have not shown any signs of lung cancer.
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Post by agedhippie on Dec 22, 2016 11:16:26 GMT -5
Also your comment about lung risk. Question for you...at what point do we have enough data to suggest cancer risk is not there? So far we have close to 10,000 patients that have not shown any signs of lung cancer. Me personally or the medical profession? Personally I don't think there is a cancer risk above and beyond the usual insulin cancer risks - in other words it is not a consideration. I don't think the endos see it as a cancer risk either (my endo was pretty emphatic about that) however they are concerned with other potential effects with pulmonary fibrosis being specifically mentioned. The upshot is that I think a lot of endos are going to wait for at least preliminary results from the FDA mandated lung safety trials and those have not been started yet as far as I know. It may be possible to short circuit some of that by giving out all the raw trials data but companies are reluctant to do that since it can be commercially sensitive.
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Post by sayhey24 on Dec 22, 2016 11:17:29 GMT -5
I probably shouldn't rise to the bait but still... In the case of insulin doctors absolutely do create the demand. virtually nobody goes to a doctor and says, "Let's try insulin". Almost all people are dragged screaming and kicking to insulin whether that is because they don't want to admit that their Type 2 has got that bad, or because they are Type 1 and there is no option. So why do companies advertise insulin at all? Noticed how almost all the adverts are about basal insulin? This is the same principle that car manufacturers advertise, there is no expectation of an immediate sale but when the time comes they want you to remember the name. The problem for Afrezza is that it is not basal insulin so the conversation goes like this... Doctor: It's time for once a day insulin Patient: What about that inhaled insulin? It looks really good. Doctor: Ah that is mealtime insulin and your diabetes is not that bad yet, this is a once a day shot like your GLP-1, we just swap GLP-1 for insulin and it's the same routine as today. Patient: Phew! That was easy. Everyone is happy. The obstructions to sales are: - Insurance. Poor cover means that doctors don't want to write a prescription that cannot be filled. - Risks to lungs - the trials to prove there is no risk are in the future meanwhile any doctor who is risk adverse can point at the FDA requirement and ask if you are happy to take the risk with your lungs. - How well does it work? Put a couple of keen patients on it and wait a year. If things go well slowly add more of your more motivated patients. - Trials data. It is no better (marginally worse) than existing treatments. Advertising is largely pointless until insurance and endos are fixed. I think you're half right. Yes, Endos must understand the drug and willing to prescribe it. Yes,Insurance coverage must cover it. Yes,your conversation above is one of many possible conversations patients might have with their doctor. Yes, afrezza is not for everyone! But that's only half the story. Through targeted advertising and the right tv commercial strategy we must build patient demand and promote awareness for the product. Right now we have little awareness that inhaled insulin is even a choice! More conversations about afrezza should create more scripts down the road! Also your comment about lung risk. Question for you...at what point do we have enough data to suggest cancer risk is not there? So far we have close to 10,000 patients that have not shown any signs of lung cancer. Endos - Hey! One of the first Endos I heard talk about prescribing afrezza was at the Advisory Committee Meeting. He was on the panel and said if he voted to approve afrezza and doctors started prescribing it, it would put him out of business. IMO he was right and Endos are no friend of afrezza. I think Stefan Schwarz also realized this early in 2015 and knew Sanofi was not going to be able to sell afrezza the traditional way. afrezza is a job killer in the diabetes community. From the Endos, to the drug and pump companies, to much of the research - afrezza is a job killer. Lets hope the Vdex's of the world get up and running fast because trying to sell afrezza through traditional channels hoping Endos start prescribing has not worked and is not going to work.
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Post by saxcmann on Dec 22, 2016 11:53:53 GMT -5
Also your comment about lung risk. Question for you...at what point do we have enough data to suggest cancer risk is not there? So far we have close to 10,000 patients that have not shown any signs of lung cancer. Me personally or the medical profession? Personally I don't think there is a cancer risk above and beyond the usual insulin cancer risks - in other words it is not a consideration. I don't think the endos see it as a cancer risk either (my endo was pretty emphatic about that) however they are concerned with other potential effects with pulmonary fibrosis being specifically mentioned. The upshot is that I think a lot of endos are going to wait for at least preliminary results from the FDA mandated lung safety trials and those have not been started yet as far as I know. It may be possible to short circuit some of that by giving out all the raw trials data but companies are reluctant to do that since it can be commercially sensitive. Thanks for your reply. Some good points. As of today, no pulmonary issues as far as i know? My endo friend says none. Yes more data can be used...Always have more data, right? I would say the same thing to a medical professional.
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Post by saxcmann on Dec 22, 2016 12:00:36 GMT -5
I think you're half right. Yes, Endos must understand the drug and willing to prescribe it. Yes,Insurance coverage must cover it. Yes,your conversation above is one of many possible conversations patients might have with their doctor. Yes, afrezza is not for everyone! But that's only half the story. Through targeted advertising and the right tv commercial strategy we must build patient demand and promote awareness for the product. Right now we have little awareness that inhaled insulin is even a choice! More conversations about afrezza should create more scripts down the road! Also your comment about lung risk. Question for you...at what point do we have enough data to suggest cancer risk is not there? So far we have close to 10,000 patients that have not shown any signs of lung cancer. Endos - Hey! One of the first Endos I heard talk about prescribing afrezza was at the Advisory Committee Meeting. He was on the panel and said if he voted to approve afrezza and doctors started prescribing it, it would put him out of business. IMO he was right and Endos are no friend of afrezza. I think Stefan Schwarz also realized this early in 2015 and knew Sanofi was not going to be able to sell afrezza the traditional way. afrezza is a job killer in the diabetes community. From the Endos, to the drug and pump companies, to much of the research - afrezza is a job killer. Lets hope the Vdex's of the world get up and running fast because trying to sell afrezza through traditional channels hoping Endos start prescribing has not worked and is not going to work. Yes afrezza is great but not for everyone. Endos are not going out business with afrezza! I agree with your Vdex points tho. Hopefully vdexs proactive treatments will improve PWD lifestyles and make traditional endos follow suit.
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Post by drman7 on Dec 22, 2016 13:43:03 GMT -5
Age..this would be a great Afrezza commercial if it can be condensed in 60s or less. Im serious
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Post by audiomr on Dec 22, 2016 14:57:40 GMT -5
Like management showing no concern over SNY dumping Afrezza? You must not have a lot of investing track record if you haven't many times over encountered companies with upbeat conference calls even when bankruptcy was right around the corner. Not saying that is going to happen with MNKD, but if I had to bet on a storm one way or the other, I'd bet a bad storm not a good one. The positive scenarios likely don't involve some transformative storm, but rather the hard work of slowly developing market acceptance for Afrezza. So how do you know for certain that SNY "dumped" Afrezza? How do you know that SNY did not say to MNKD that before they could sell it successfully that the endos would need educated and that the insurance would need improved and that the rescources for SNY to educate the endos and work on the insurance were not provided for in the contract? How do you know that SNY did not say the label needs improved? How do you know that SNY did not say to MNKD, "We'll give it back to you for now, you work on these issues and perhaps we'll work with you in the future, and perhaps more so when we have CGM's ready to market?" The more reasonable question would be "why would you think otherwise?"
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Post by slugworth008 on Dec 22, 2016 19:28:37 GMT -5
There are a few Endo's that are top prescribers. But in every case I have heard of the patient or the child has had to ask the Endo for Afrezza. The Endo has not offered it. How do you fix a Endo? IMO it's patient demand. Perhaps the endo needs an endo to get moving. LOL - I just couldn't resist that one Sports.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Dec 24, 2016 17:31:29 GMT -5
Like management showing no concern over SNY dumping Afrezza? You must not have a lot of investing track record if you haven't many times over encountered companies with upbeat conference calls even when bankruptcy was right around the corner. Not saying that is going to happen with MNKD, but if I had to bet on a storm one way or the other, I'd bet a bad storm not a good one. The positive scenarios likely don't involve some transformative storm, but rather the hard work of slowly developing market acceptance for Afrezza. So how do you know for certain that SNY "dumped" Afrezza? How do you know that SNY did not say to MNKD that before they could sell it successfully that the endos would need educated and that the insurance would need improved and that the rescources for SNY to educate the endos and work on the insurance were not provided for in the contract? How do you know that SNY did not say the label needs improved? How do you know that SNY did not say to MNKD, "We'll give it back to you for now, you work on these issues and perhaps we'll work with you in the future, and perhaps more so when we have CGM's ready to market?" I have no way of disproving the existence of Santa Clause, so to that extent I don't really "know" about that or anything else. As for facts... we do know that SNY stopped marketing Afrezza, and I choose to call that "dumping Afrezza". You of course are free to refer to that fact in a different manner. As for their motives for doing so, I know what SNY has said. I could look up the exact statements but it seems you're interested in your imagined savior scenarios rather than what we actually know to be fact. SNY said they did not believe Afrezza to be commercially viable. That may be taken with a grain of salt since they clearly could view Afrezza as competing in ways with their other diabetes products. It seems much more plausible that they either truly believe that Afrezza is not commercially viable, or claimed it to be as a means of making it more difficult for MNKD to succeed with it. Your scenario seems rather far fetched since if SNY was still interested in Afrezza's success claiming it to be commercially not viable would create problems for that success. But perhaps SNY is already in route to all of our Chimneys with presents made of gold. I shall rejoice with you in that case, but looking at it from the perspective of reality and facts, I'd give it vanishingly small odds.
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Post by promann on Dec 26, 2016 10:38:47 GMT -5
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Post by careful2invest on Dec 26, 2016 16:08:11 GMT -5
The definition is clear, that was never a question in my mind. BUT... Does that mean that Sanofi's opinion at that time is cast in stone and can never shift? Only thing we can absolutely count on is that things can and certainly will change. So we all continue to speculate because that is all we have to go on right now. MNKD and Sanofi are the only ones that hold the truth to what is going on behind the scenes...for now... Although, Google may hold some knowledge as well. 2017 should be eventful! GLTA TRUE LONGS!
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Post by steve on Dec 26, 2016 19:10:57 GMT -5
there are few posters here who fantasize and post their fantasies, delusions..and they all sound the same.. If i had the privilege, I could deactivate them as they contribute nothing lol awesome Lol. Two whom should be deactivated right away.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 19:50:16 GMT -5
Lol. Two whom should be deactivated right away. Ok I will play along. Microsoft + Novo is bidding on MNKD against Google + Sanofi.
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