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Post by agedhippie on Sept 15, 2019 13:13:19 GMT -5
more rose colored glasses.  That chart is exactly why the APS is so important. A system like Loop would have bought everything into line hours earlier without any intervention by the parents. |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Sept 15, 2019 13:18:01 GMT -5
more rose colored glasses. My God. Terrifying. |
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Post by shawnonafrezza on Sept 15, 2019 14:01:16 GMT -5
peppy I'm not really sure I follow your point. Everything you just posted is still a problem on Afrezza. It's not like you take it and don't have diabetes anymore. Hormones still happen. Sleep, hydration, activity, lack of activity, stress, wrong food counts, bad diet, the list of things goes on and on. Those are your rose colored glasses, you think the insulin is the main problem.
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paul
Researcher
Posts: 134
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Post by paul on Sept 15, 2019 14:10:03 GMT -5
What Sanofi and Novo Nordisk are doing is interesting. Both have an offer where for $99 you can get both basal AND bolus insulin (Toujeo and Apidra, or Tresiba and Fiasp or Novolog). This clever because it disadvantages manufacturer making only a meal time insulin (although I think the real target here is Eli Lilly rather than Mannkind) as their customers still need to buy a basal insulin which makes that route a lot more expensive. There does appear maybe to be one difference. The Sanofi program says "Only people without prescription medication insurance can apply for this offer." The Novo program seems to apply to diabetics with or without insurance. |
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Post by peppy on Sept 15, 2019 14:15:09 GMT -5
What Sanofi and Novo Nordisk are doing is interesting. Both have an offer where for $99 you can get both basal AND bolus insulin (Toujeo and Apidra, or Tresiba and Fiasp or Novolog). This clever because it disadvantages manufacturer making only a meal time insulin (although I think the real target here is Eli Lilly rather than Mannkind) as their customers still need to buy a basal insulin which makes that route a lot more expensive. There does appear maybe to be one difference. The Sanofi program says "Only people without prescription medication insurance can apply for this offer." The Novo program seems to apply to diabetics with or without insurance. yes, it's the same with all of them, if insurance covers it.... nothing has changed. this program seems to be for the indigent and the none insured. |
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Post by peppy on Sept 15, 2019 14:16:32 GMT -5
more rose colored glasses. That chart is exactly why the APS is so important. A system like Loop would have bought everything into line hours earlier without any intervention by the parents. what would loop have done and when? would it allow the same BG high? |
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Post by peppy on Sept 15, 2019 14:24:03 GMT -5
peppy I'm not really sure I follow your point. Everything you just posted is still a problem on Afrezza. It's not like you take it and don't have diabetes anymore. Hormones still happen. Sleep, hydration, activity, lack of activity, stress, wrong food counts, bad diet, the list of things goes on and on. Those are your rose colored glasses, you think the insulin is the main problem. also at times the villi of the intestine absorb differently. Bad diet.... I know your diet, all that meat has a higher rate of cancer. The detail of the studies shown in the video. Also dr colin campbell, protein over ten precent = cancer. protein under ten percent no cancer. Type one Diabetes is extremely difficult and complex, I get that. |
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Post by shawnonafrezza on Sept 15, 2019 14:30:16 GMT -5
peppy I'm not really sure I follow your point. Everything you just posted is still a problem on Afrezza. It's not like you take it and don't have diabetes anymore. Hormones still happen. Sleep, hydration, activity, lack of activity, stress, wrong food counts, bad diet, the list of things goes on and on. Those are your rose colored glasses, you think the insulin is the main problem. also at times the villi of the intestine absorb differently. Bad diet.... I know your diet, all that meat has a higher rate of cancer. The detail of the studies shown in the video. Also dr colin campbell, protein over ten precent = cancer. protein under ten percent no cancer. Type one Diabetes is extremely difficult and complex, I get that. I know your diet too (is it just diet?). What you conveniently left out from the Campbell study is the **monkeys** that didn't get cancer also died sooner than the ones who did. . I did WFPB for 6 months. It just made me hungrier, weaker, A1C went up, gas through the roof (my gf would've left me if I didn't stop!), but hey, I did what the good doc Barnard said. It just didn't get the results he said. Maybe because humans have eaten meat as long as they were consider homo sapiens and even before that. Kinda wondering where I'm supposed to eat 80/10/10 in the wild as a homo sapien. We also see cancer reduction with LCHF but that's not fitting a narrative. But that's not what this thread is for |
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Post by agedhippie on Sept 15, 2019 18:30:48 GMT -5
That chart is exactly why the APS is so important. A system like Loop would have bought everything into line hours earlier without any intervention by the parents. what would loop have done and when? would it allow the same BG high? Without knowing what caused that high it's hard to tell. What it would have done is get it back to baseline about 9 hours earlier and held it there. That would have spared the parents a sleepless night. |
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Post by agedhippie on Sept 15, 2019 18:32:58 GMT -5
There does appear maybe to be one difference. The Sanofi program says "Only people without prescription medication insurance can apply for this offer." The Novo program seems to apply to diabetics with or without insurance. That is correct. That's not to say that you cannot also be insured, just that your insurance cannot pay for the program. That's standard with any program like this. |
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Post by peppy on Sept 15, 2019 18:42:36 GMT -5
what would loop have done and when? would it allow the same BG high? Without knowing what caused that high it's hard to tell. What it would have done is get it back to baseline about 9 hours earlier and held it there. That would have spared the parents a sleepless night. quote: What it would have done is get it back to baseline about 9 hours earlier and held it there. Reply: How? How would the loop system have gotten gotten this person back to baseline 9 hours earlier? HOW EXACTLY? |
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Post by shawnonafrezza on Sept 15, 2019 19:04:16 GMT -5
Without knowing what caused that high it's hard to tell. What it would have done is get it back to baseline about 9 hours earlier and held it there. That would have spared the parents a sleepless night. quote: What it would have done is get it back to baseline about 9 hours earlier and held it there. Reply: How? How would the loop system have gotten gotten this person back to baseline 9 hours earlier? HOW EXACTLY? Like so (they wouldn't have gone so high in the first place): imgur.com/a/qxdY0YELoop only modifies basals. Any part where you see the blue jagged lines going down was the algorithm determining you needed more insulin. You can also see it shutting off insulin. See the rise in the last 1/3 of the graph? See all those increases in basal? The bgl barely scrapes 140, the user did nothing. The purple line is what it is predicting and it will manage that every 5 minutes. Other algorithms (oref1 via OpenAps/AndroidAps) can also bolus small amounts to front load insulin. This is also with Humalog. With Fiasp some people get better results. I've said it before, the limiting speed of Afrezza is the user. A machine looking every second negates some of the delay of RAA. IF URLI performs as well as the clinical data shows then it, in an APS, will probably be faster than Afrezza. If that happens, the main benefit of Afrezza is only to be untethered because it is more expensive and requires user input. EDIT - That all said, only some 25% of T1D use a pump right now. I forget if that status world wide or just USA but with it being so high I;d imagine it's just USA. |
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Post by agedhippie on Sept 15, 2019 19:45:20 GMT -5
I had a whole long reply written, but Shawn did it far better. The key thing is frequent dosing which means that each dose can be very small and easily walked back. Big doses are hard to walk back. You are using a computer to do what computers do best - manically focus on details at a level that a human could never do.
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Post by peppy on Sept 15, 2019 20:28:22 GMT -5
I had a whole long reply written, but Shawn did it far better. The key thing is frequent dosing which means that each dose can be very small and easily walked back. Big doses are hard to walk back. You are using a computer to do what computers do best - manically focus on details at a level that a human could never do. I am still trying to figure it all out. looking at the peak effect times. Looking just at Fiasp because the times are clear and it is supposed to be ultra fast. and then looking how long it lasts. so the computer can see your blood glucose is going up and the computer micro gives enough insulin that in two hours it will make a difference? then the basal, finding the times on that.... Long-acting insulin Two types of this insulin currently on the market are detemir (Levemir) and glargine (Toujeo, Lantus, and Basaglar). This basal insulin begins working 90 minutes to 4 hours after injection and remains in your bloodstream for up to 24 hours. Afrezza seems easy compared to this. I'll stop and thank you both for the discussion, I know I can be aggravating.  |
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Post by mango on Sept 15, 2019 20:37:53 GMT -5
I had a whole long reply written, but Shawn did it far better. The key thing is frequent dosing which means that each dose can be very small and easily walked back. Big doses are hard to walk back. You are using a computer to do what computers do best - manically focus on details at a level that a human could never do. I am still trying to figure it all out. looking at the peak effect times. Looking just at Fiasp because the times are clear and it is supposed to be ultra fast. and then looking how long it lasts. so the computer can see your blood glucose is going up and the computer micro gives enough insulin that in two hours it will make a difference? then the basal, finding the times on that.... Long-acting insulin Two types of this insulin currently on the market are detemir (Levemir) and glargine (Toujeo, Lantus, and Basaglar). This basal insulin begins working 90 minutes to 4 hours after injection and remains in your bloodstream for up to 24 hours. Afrezza seems easy compared to this. I'll stop and thank you both for the discussion, I know I can be aggravating. Afrezza: The preferred patient experience |
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