|
|
Post by casualinvestor on Oct 7, 2019 10:06:21 GMT -5
The recent few pages of this thread are a very good reason why VDEX should not release their numbers. Any number given will be twisted to the full extent of people's imagination to fit their agenda. I'll point out this quote from Ross: "When we consider that even that paltry number is dependent upon a massive subsidy from MNKD (and its shareholders) in the form of the discount programs, we get a picture of a failed business plan that is a net loss for MannKind." as great twisting of facts.
VDEX is probably familiar with all of MNKD discount programs/etc, and they inform their patients of all ways in which they can get their medication for cheaper, if needed. That's what they should be doing, advocating for their patients. More patients successfully using Afrezza is without a doubt a good thing for MNKD
If MNKD's own discount programs are actually hurting MNKD (this seems very unlikely, they have accountants and I hear those guys are good with numbers) then that's on MNKD, not the clinics or patients.
VDEX's sole medication prescribed is Afrezza. You may not like their push to be a distributor, or the attitude of the CEO. But every patient they put on Afrezza is a win for MNKD. Every auth for Afrezza they submit to an insurance company drives MNKD forward. If VDEX succeeds, Afrezza and MNKD will automatically do better. Not to mention that as a completely separate entity, they have much more leeway in trumpeting how good Afrezza really is.
HFM? I see the arguments for both sides, and I don't think it's going to make much of a difference to MNKD either way
|
|
|
|
Post by harryx1 on Oct 7, 2019 10:10:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by akemp3000 on Oct 7, 2019 10:38:58 GMT -5
Nothing would be better than for both VDex and Mannkind to be very successful with Afrezza. I like Bill and believe he has the best of intentions. Because of the FDA however, the two organizations operate under very different guidelines that prevent them from co-mingling. Until such time VDex provides substantive data regarding scripts, protocols, etc. as opposed to anecdotal commentary, I remain skeptical that VDex knows anything that Mannkind, and more specifically Dr. Kendall, does not already know. Unfortunately, FDA restrictions prevent Mannkind from aggressively advertising many important facts. It does appear the ship is turning albeit slowly. Good luck to both.
|
|
|
|
Post by theebavarian on Oct 7, 2019 11:00:24 GMT -5
I would rather hold my judgement until the facts are known.. There is a lot I would like to say about MC.. but for the most part I don't because it is in bad taste.. There is too much we don't know right now.. what I do know is that we have a world class insulin that is struggling to stay afloat..we are celebrating 880 scripts a week!!!!! Which btw VDEX contributed to.. not to mention that Vdex are shareholders also... "Charlatans" .. I don't think so. As I see it, there is no BP who is going to be our White Knight and Vdex can and will accumulate patients who will succeed on the drug because they will be using it as was intended. Unlike most of our endos who want nothing to do with it.. not to mention our barbaric SOC.. In business time is money..it's been too long already.. The facts will be known.. I plan to be fair an open minded about it.. Vdex is a start up.. I have no idea how many patients they have.. last I heard it was 300.. that doesn't sound like much.. but if it's 300 happy patients who truly understand Afrezza and retention is good that's better than we are doing.. I suspect this number will most certainly grow as PWD hear about Vdex and their success with Afrezza.. "...not to mention that Vdex are shareholders also" - Does "VDEX Diabetes" (the company) own MNKD stocks, or does the "owners" of VDEX own the stock, or both? This differentiation matters. "Vdex is a start up..." To me anyway, it's a bit of a juxtaposition that a "start up" would know more than the company that has been around for decades on how it can best overcome the sales hurdles better than the company itself. "As it stands with Mnkd and Afrezza.. IMO Vdex and Dr. Kendall are our only hope.. " I appreciate your point of view, but for me, I'll add Mike Castagna to your list as well. |
|
|
|
Post by cretin11 on Oct 7, 2019 11:20:41 GMT -5
These facts are incontrovertible:
1) Afrezza scripts are lower than any of us predicted they would be by now, lower than what we need them to be.
2) Without VDEX, script counts would be even LOWER than they are now.
Those are facts, this is just my opinion: VDEX and MNKD's relationship should be collaborative rather than adversarial, the success of one should logically benefit the other so let's work together (as much as is allowed under rules and regs).
|
|
|
|
Post by matt on Oct 7, 2019 11:20:52 GMT -5
Any number given will be twisted to the full extent of people's imagination to fit their agenda. That is indeed a risk, but just because the numbers are out there does not mean the comments are unfair. I did merger & acquisition analysis for a substantial part of my career with a major industry player, and when doing those reviews I could always find spots of sunshine and identify some looming storm clouds on the horizon. No company is ever 100% good or bad; the trick is to take a balanced and realistic view of the overall enterprise. Those who discount the ability of Vdex to have a better understanding of how to market to patients forget the structure of the market. Mannkind does not market to the patient; mostly they market to the physician and in some cases the PBM. The patient pays, directly or indirectly, but most have little say over what goes on the script itself. Vdex is not a customer either, but they are much closer to one making the buying decision for the patient than Mannkind is, and that gives them better visibility to the real dynamics. Now you can fault Vdex for building an entire business around a single drug that they didn't control or didn't at least have an inked distribution agreement of some sort, but they know at least as much about getting Afrezza into the hands of diabetics as the revolving door that passes for a sales department at Mannkind. To be fair, both Vdex and Mannkind need a lot of work. |
|
|
|
Post by nylefty on Oct 7, 2019 12:36:39 GMT -5
I would rather hold my judgement until the facts are known.. There is a lot I would like to say about MC.. but for the most part I don't because it is in bad taste.. There is too much we don't know right now.. what I do know is that we have a world class insulin that is struggling to stay afloat..we are celebrating 880 scripts a week!!!!! Which btw VDEX contributed to.. not to mention that Vdex are shareholders also... "Charlatans" .. I don't think so. As I see it, there is no BP who is going to be our White Knight and Vdex can and will accumulate patients who will succeed on the drug because they will be using it as was intended. Unlike most of our endos who want nothing to do with it.. not to mention our barbaric SOC.. In business time is money..it's been too long already.. The facts will be known.. I plan to be fair an open minded about it.. Vdex is a start up.. I have no idea how many patients they have.. last I heard it was 300.. that doesn't sound like much.. but if it's 300 happy patients who truly understand Afrezza and retention is good that's better than we are doing.. I suspect this number will most certainly grow as PWD hear about Vdex and their success with Afrezza.. "...not to mention that Vdex are shareholders also" - Does "VDEX Diabetes" (the company) own MNKD stocks, or does the "owners" of VDEX own the stock, or both? This differentiation matters. "Vdex is a start up..." To me anyway, it's a bit of a juxtaposition that a "start up" would know more than the company that has been around for decades on how it can best overcome the sales hurdles better than the company itself. "As it stands with Mnkd and Afrezza.. IMO Vdex and Dr. Kendall are our only hope.. " I appreciate your point of view, but for me, I'll add Mike Castagna to your list as well. Sports has said more than once that Bill McCullough and Steve Brown are MNKD shareholders in their individual accounts. Vdex as a company doesn't own any shares. |
|
|
|
Post by wgreystone on Oct 7, 2019 12:59:06 GMT -5
These facts are incontrovertible: 1) Afrezza scripts are lower than any of us predicted they would be by now, lower than what we need them to be. 2) Without VDEX, script counts would be even LOWER than they are now. Those are facts, this is just my opinion: VDEX and MNKD's relationship should be collaborative rather than adversarial, the success of one should logically benefit the other so let's work together (as much as is allowed under rules and regs). Truthfully agree. That's why I can't understand MC's attitude toward Vdex. many people on this board doubt about Vdex's success story, but think about it: If you were the founder of Vdex, after openning the first two clinics, would you continue to open the 3/4/5/6th clinics if you didn't see good results coming out from the first two? |
|
|
|
Post by dh4mizzou on Oct 7, 2019 13:50:34 GMT -5
Sorry but take issue with the Endo saying you have to go through a LOT of testing. Blowing into a plastic hose does NOT amount to a LOT of testing IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by lifebreath on Oct 7, 2019 13:53:54 GMT -5
These facts are incontrovertible: 1) Afrezza scripts are lower than any of us predicted they would be by now, lower than what we need them to be. 2) Without VDEX, script counts would be even LOWER than they are now. Those are facts, this is just my opinion: VDEX and MNKD's relationship should be collaborative rather than adversarial, the success of one should logically benefit the other so let's work together (as much as is allowed under rules and regs). Truthfully agree. That's why I can't understand MC's attitude toward Vdex. many people on this board doubt about Vdex's success story, but think about it: If you were the founder of Vdex, after openning the first two clinics, would you continue to open the 3/4/5/6th clinics if you didn't see good results coming out from the first two? it’s just personal for Castagna it’s his way or no way, no matter how flawed his way is. He knows he has duped the incompetent BOD they are in his pocket. So he doesn’t give a rats ass about shareholders he will get his unconscionable pay and bonus regardless. |
|
|
|
Post by mytakeonit on Oct 7, 2019 14:17:24 GMT -5
To pull things back to perspective ... VDEX wanted special pricing for Afrezza similar to what a distributor would get. Definitely not in the same category.  When we see a container of Afrezza parked in a VDEX parking lot ... then maybe. But, that's mytakeonit |
|
|
|
Post by longliner on Oct 7, 2019 14:29:45 GMT -5
To pull things back to perspective ... VDEX wanted special pricing for Afrezza similar to what a distributor would get. Definitely not in the same category. When we see a container of Afrezza parked in a VDEX parking lot ... then maybe. But, that's mytakeonit And excusivity to areas of operation. |
|
|
|
Post by nylefty on Oct 7, 2019 14:38:20 GMT -5
To pull things back to perspective ... VDEX wanted special pricing for Afrezza similar to what a distributor would get. Definitely not in the same category. When we see a container of Afrezza parked in a VDEX parking lot ... then maybe. But, that's mytakeonit And excusivity to areas of operation. But McCullough later said that he was no longer asking for exclusivity. |
|
|
|
Post by veritasfiliatemporis on Oct 7, 2019 14:48:57 GMT -5
And excusivity to areas of operation. But McCullough later said that he was no longer asking for exclusivity. And now he is no longer asking a discount price.. Tomorrow he will not ask... |
|
|
|
Post by lennymnkd on Oct 7, 2019 14:51:38 GMT -5
These facts are incontrovertible: 1) Afrezza scripts are lower than any of us predicted they would be by now, lower than what we need them to be. 2) Without VDEX, script counts would be even LOWER than they are now. Those are facts, this is just my opinion: VDEX and MNKD's relationship should be collaborative rather than adversarial, the success of one should logically benefit the other so let's work together (as much as is allowed under rules and regs). It’s seems to just have gone away , but didn’t mnkd mention somewhere recently that we are opening a VEDEX like operation ... doesn’t seem like to much attention has been paid to this .. maybe I heard or read the concept wrong ! |
|
When we see a container of Afrezza parked in a VDEX parking lot ... then maybe.
