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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 4, 2019 7:07:16 GMT -5
I believe its "afrezza first afrezza last" as opposed to the "Treat to Fail" Four Step ADA protocol Yes, but what exactly is the protocol they follow? Do they go the standard diet and exercise first, etc, or do they start with afrezza straight off? Do they use CGMs on every patient? I believe sayhey has it right, it’s off Metformin and others. As far is their extensive program goes somethings have to be kept confidential because of competition.
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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 4, 2019 19:30:49 GMT -5
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Post by mnholdem on Jan 5, 2019 9:39:08 GMT -5
I've been thinking since reading the latest VDex whitepaper. VDex might do well to consider adding another business model. Currently, as I understand it, individual doctors and/or business entrepreneurs can open VDex clinics and get support (e.g. training, materials) from the VDex parent company as part of their startup costs. Another business model that could become quite lucrative would be a model where VDex offers its services to Primary Care Physician clinics for VDex to handle the titrating and coaching of patients newly prescribed with Afrezza. I would set it up to be a monthly fee-based service with an annual contract. VDex would provide initial onsite basic training of clinic staff in regards to the benefits of Afrezza treatment for diabetes, followed by VDex itself remotely providing their proprietary titration protocol and daily 1-to-1 coaching for Afrezza patients. Initially this would involve VDex physicians but eventual coaching would be handled by other certified healthcare professionals at VDex. Clinics could choose whether to continue paying the annual service fee or to pay VDex to teach them their protocols. The contract would include a confidentiality agreement. VDex would have to secure additional funding for scaling up the marketing of it's proprietary treatment protocols, including initial travel & lodging expenses for visiting interested clinics and the initial onsite training, but this business model could quickly achieve cash-flow and become quite lucrative. I am NOT suggesting that doctors would find the service appealing because they are lazy or apathetic to the patient. On the contrary, the appeal of this business model would lay in the fact that contracted specialists would be preferred to hiring & training clinic staff for patient training on the use of a revolutionary new insulin treatment. It would also provide the clinic with 1-2 years of observing patient results, at which point they may pay VDex to train clinic staff to adopt the VDex protocols and handle patient treatment with their own staff. Perhaps, Sportsrancho, you would consider passing this idea along to your contacts at VDex?
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 5, 2019 10:20:37 GMT -5
Holdem - what you are suggesting is exactly the primary business model VDex has been following for awhile. Note in the paper it says their patients are under the care of other doctors.
IMO, there is a golden opportunity for dedicated diabetes clinics offering full service nutrition, physical therapy and AFAL. This needs to be combined with a 24/7 monitoring coaching service like One Drop.
The issue is proper funding. To open a single clinic to the point of profitability, proper funding would be a minimum $2M. I suspect VDex is not currently operating with that type of funding and is not providing these other services. Maybe these clinics should be part of a Planet Fitness type operation.
Open those type of clinics right next to large endo practices and offer 90 days of free care in direct competition to the endo. What PWD having a 1, 2, 5 point A1c reduction is going back to their old endo?
After you do this once and show great success go across town to the next biggest practice and cut a deal on your terms for the endo to start using afrezza or open another clinic next to them.
If Mike was serious about sales TV commercials are not going to do it until SOC updates are made. Focused sales areas are but not by cold calling on existing doctors. This clinical approach will and each clinic should be able to do 200 new scripts a month. Get a hundred up and going and MNKD is past the magical break even script point and has the attention of every endo in the country.
If I were Mike, I would get Dr. Kendall and have a meeting with Bill asap to kick-off Dr. Kendall doing some due diligence. If what Bill put in the paper is true Mike now has an approach which will get real afrezza sales.
I told Mike at the 2016 ASM the only thing which would save afrezza was when people could see BG with CGMs. It may have taken nearly three years but I heard Mike saying similar words yesterday on the call. Hopefully Mike has Bill's number.
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Post by stevil on Jan 5, 2019 12:00:15 GMT -5
I've been thinking since reading the latest VDex whitepaper. VDex might do well to consider adding another business model. Currently, as I understand it, individual doctors and/or business entrepreneurs can open VDex clinics and get support (e.g. training, materials) from the VDex parent company as part of their startup costs. Another business model that could become quite lucrative would be a model where VDex offers its services to Primary Care Physician clinics for VDex to handle the titrating and coaching of patients newly prescribed with Afrezza. I would set it up to be a monthly fee-based service with an annual contract. VDex would provide initial onsite basic training of clinic staff in regards to the benefits of Afrezza treatment for diabetes, followed by VDex itself remotely providing their proprietary titration protocol and daily 1-to-1 coaching for Afrezza patients. Initially this would involve VDex physicians but eventual coaching would be handled by other certified healthcare professionals at VDex. Clinics could choose whether to continue paying the annual service fee or to pay VDex to teach them their protocols. The contract would include a confidentiality agreement. VDex would have to secure additional funding for scaling up the marketing of it's proprietary treatment protocols, including initial travel & lodging expenses for visiting interested clinics and the initial onsite training, but this business model could quickly achieve cash-flow and become quite lucrative. I am NOT suggesting that doctors would find the service appealing because they are lazy or apathetic to the patient. On the contrary, the appeal of this business model would lay in the fact that contracted specialists would be preferred to hiring & training clinic staff for patient training on the use of a revolutionary new insulin treatment. It would also provide the clinic with 1-2 years of observing patient results, at which point they may pay VDex to train clinic staff to adopt the VDex protocols and handle patient treatment with their own staff. Perhaps, Sportsrancho, you would consider passing this idea along to your contacts at VDex? What's the monetary benefit to the PCP? They're spending more money to make the same amount. They can't bill insurance more money to cover VDEX's cut. This would work for cash payers, but I don't see it working for those with insurance. Would have to know how much nurse educators get paid by insurance companies to know whether it would be possible for VDEX to get their cut, doctors to get their cut, nurses to get theirs, then enough left over to cover overhead of space and supplies. I'm not sure there's that much money in it, but admittedly, I don't know.
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Post by mango on Jan 5, 2019 12:29:55 GMT -5
i can see vdex doing tremendous things in mexico. when do ya'll think afrezza will be approved in mexico?
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Post by mnholdem on Jan 5, 2019 12:33:57 GMT -5
Stevil,
The clinic would do the patient billing and pay VDex a monthly fee, scaled by range of patients served.
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Post by mango on Jan 5, 2019 12:52:15 GMT -5
I've been thinking since reading the latest VDex whitepaper. VDex might do well to consider adding another business model. Currently, as I understand it, individual doctors and/or business entrepreneurs can open VDex clinics and get support (e.g. training, materials) from the VDex parent company as part of their startup costs. Another business model that could become quite lucrative would be a model where VDex offers its services to Primary Care Physician clinics for VDex to handle the titrating and coaching of patients newly prescribed with Afrezza. I would set it up to be a monthly fee-based service with an annual contract. VDex would provide initial onsite basic training of clinic staff in regards to the benefits of Afrezza treatment for diabetes, followed by VDex itself remotely providing their proprietary titration protocol and daily 1-to-1 coaching for Afrezza patients. Initially this would involve VDex physicians but eventual coaching would be handled by other certified healthcare professionals at VDex. Clinics could choose whether to continue paying the annual service fee or to pay VDex to teach them their protocols. The contract would include a confidentiality agreement. VDex would have to secure additional funding for scaling up the marketing of it's proprietary treatment protocols, including initial travel & lodging expenses for visiting interested clinics and the initial onsite training, but this business model could quickly achieve cash-flow and become quite lucrative. I am NOT suggesting that doctors would find the service appealing because they are lazy or apathetic to the patient. On the contrary, the appeal of this business model would lay in the fact that contracted specialists would be preferred to hiring & training clinic staff for patient training on the use of a revolutionary new insulin treatment. It would also provide the clinic with 1-2 years of observing patient results, at which point they may pay VDex to train clinic staff to adopt the VDex protocols and handle patient treatment with their own staff. Perhaps, Sportsrancho, you would consider passing this idea along to your contacts at VDex? What's the monetary benefit to the PCP? They're spending more money to make the same amount. They can't bill insurance more money to cover VDEX's cut. This would work for cash payers, but I don't see it working for those with insurance. Would have to know how much nurse educators get paid by insurance companies to know whether it would be possible for VDEX to get their cut, doctors to get their cut, nurses to get theirs, then enough left over to cover overhead of space and supplies. I'm not sure there's that much money in it, but admittedly, I don't know. I can't say a lot because of confidentiality but the clinics do not pay for anything, stevil, the clinics make a cut. Vdex does bill insurance. They essentially take up no real-estate since they are there only to see PWD and strictly manage blood sugars. The people seeing these patients would be VDex employees, they wouldn't be paid by the clinic. PCPs don't have the time required and outsourcing their diabetic patients to VDex allows for essentially an 1-on-1 visit with no time constraints. It's just something clinics are totally unable to do. It's really a win-win for everyone.
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Post by mango on Jan 5, 2019 12:54:12 GMT -5
Stevil, The clinic would do the patient billing and pay VDex a monthly fee, scaled by range of patients served. It's the other way around, VDex would pay the clinic a flat fee depending on patient load etc
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Post by stevil on Jan 5, 2019 14:29:43 GMT -5
I feel like I’m in an alternate universe. Are you not the same mango that told me to spend as much time as it took for patients to understand their disease process? Now you’re telling me docs don’t have time to do that?
All in in good fun, mango.
Ill be keeping an an eye on this and once I finish residency, will give it a closer look. I don’t understand their business model but would be willing to entertain it when the time comes.
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Post by peppy on Jan 5, 2019 14:55:57 GMT -5
I've been thinking since reading the latest VDex whitepaper. VDex might do well to consider adding another business model. Currently, as I understand it, individual doctors and/or business entrepreneurs can open VDex clinics and get support (e.g. training, materials) from the VDex parent company as part of their startup costs. Another business model that could become quite lucrative would be a model where VDex offers its services to Primary Care Physician clinics for VDex to handle the titrating and coaching of patients newly prescribed with Afrezza. I would set it up to be a monthly fee-based service with an annual contract. VDex would provide initial onsite basic training of clinic staff in regards to the benefits of Afrezza treatment for diabetes, followed by VDex itself remotely providing their proprietary titration protocol and daily 1-to-1 coaching for Afrezza patients. Initially this would involve VDex physicians but eventual coaching would be handled by other certified healthcare professionals at VDex. Clinics could choose whether to continue paying the annual service fee or to pay VDex to teach them their protocols. The contract would include a confidentiality agreement. VDex would have to secure additional funding for scaling up the marketing of it's proprietary treatment protocols, including initial travel & lodging expenses for visiting interested clinics and the initial onsite training, but this business model could quickly achieve cash-flow and become quite lucrative. I am NOT suggesting that doctors would find the service appealing because they are lazy or apathetic to the patient. On the contrary, the appeal of this business model would lay in the fact that contracted specialists would be preferred to hiring & training clinic staff for patient training on the use of a revolutionary new insulin treatment. It would also provide the clinic with 1-2 years of observing patient results, at which point they may pay VDex to train clinic staff to adopt the VDex protocols and handle patient treatment with their own staff. Perhaps, Sportsrancho, you would consider passing this idea along to your contacts at VDex? What's the monetary benefit to the PCP? They're spending more money to make the same amount. They can't bill insurance more money to cover VDEX's cut. This would work for cash payers, but I don't see it working for those with insurance. Would have to know how much nurse educators get paid by insurance companies to know whether it would be possible for VDEX to get their cut, doctors to get their cut, nurses to get theirs, then enough left over to cover overhead of space and supplies. I'm not sure there's that much money in it, but admittedly, I don't know. So it's true, people trying to pay you with chickens?
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Post by mango on Jan 5, 2019 16:14:43 GMT -5
I feel like I’m in an alternate universe. Are you not the same mango that told me to spend as much time as it took for patients to understand their disease process? Now you’re telling me docs don’t have time to do that? All in in good fun, mango. Ill be keeping an an eye on this and once I finish residency, will give it a closer look. I don’t understand their business model but would be willing to entertain it when the time comes. Well well well, stevil, I'm glad you were able to get a poke at me in this parallel universe. Care to share your presentation on Afrezza with us? Is it a poster? pics?
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Post by travis1953 on Jan 5, 2019 16:27:16 GMT -5
Does anyone know how much VDEX charges for its services? Are their services covered by insurance?
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Post by stocker on Jan 5, 2019 17:01:12 GMT -5
Services are typically covered by Ins. Cash price varies. Cash plan can be designed around patient’s ability to pay.
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Post by stevil on Jan 5, 2019 22:15:05 GMT -5
I feel like I’m in an alternate universe. Are you not the same mango that told me to spend as much time as it took for patients to understand their disease process? Now you’re telling me docs don’t have time to do that? All in in good fun, mango. Ill be keeping an an eye on this and once I finish residency, will give it a closer look. I don’t understand their business model but would be willing to entertain it when the time comes. Well well well, stevil, I'm glad you were able to get a poke at me in this parallel universe. Care to share your presentation on Afrezza with us? Is it a poster? pics? It was a PowerPoint presentation. Nothing super fancy, but I started with CGMs and finished with Afrezza. I was on a medicine rotation and was allowed to pick any topic I wanted so I took the opportunity to talk about Afrezza.
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