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Demand
Feb 15, 2017 15:11:22 GMT -5
Post by lojothehus on Feb 15, 2017 15:11:22 GMT -5
Hey FlDave, are you the same FLDave I met on Daytona Beach? If so, I had no idea you were heavily invested in MNKD. Wow that would really make it a small world.
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Demand
Feb 15, 2017 15:36:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by fldave007 on Feb 15, 2017 15:36:57 GMT -5
Hey FlDave, are you the same FLDave I met on Daytona Beach? If so, I had no idea you were heavily invested in MNKD. Wow that would really make it a small world. Lojo your confusing me with that dude from Moonlight.
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Post by peppy on Feb 15, 2017 15:51:46 GMT -5
I do not buy the endo's are conservative by nature. They are supposed to be evidence based. They have patients, they can see. Laboratory results, weight, physical examination.
Hmmmm, Years ago, there was a new drug introduced on the market. Surfactant. To give surfactant, an endotracheal tube had to be placed down the trachea. Miracle drug! What if the physicians didn't want to try it? Just saying
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Demand
Feb 15, 2017 16:00:24 GMT -5
Post by lojothehus on Feb 15, 2017 16:00:24 GMT -5
Hey FlDave, are you the same FLDave I met on Daytona Beach? If so, I had no idea you were heavily invested in MNKD. Wow that would really make it a small world. Lojo your confusing me with that dude from Moonlight. I'm sorry maybe it wasn't you; it was not a Moonlight Convention. I will stick to the topic, the FloridaDave just sounds so familiar that's all.
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Demand
Feb 15, 2017 16:08:43 GMT -5
Post by surplusvalue on Feb 15, 2017 16:08:43 GMT -5
I do not buy the endo's are conservative by nature. They are supposed to be evidence based.They have patients, they can see. Laboratory results, weight, physical examination. Hmmmm, Years ago, there was a new drug introduced on the market. Surfactant. To give surfactant, an endotracheal tube had to be placed down the trachea. Miracle drug! What if the physicians didn't want to try it? Just saying Not by nature but by training and the exigencies of pragmatic practice. How do you explain all those receptive doctors on MNKD's lists and virtually no sales. see my second post in this thread here: mnkd.proboards.com/thread/7280/demand
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Demand
Feb 15, 2017 16:21:23 GMT -5
Post by peppy on Feb 15, 2017 16:21:23 GMT -5
I do not buy the endo's are conservative by nature. They are supposed to be evidence based.They have patients, they can see. Laboratory results, weight, physical examination. Hmmmm, Years ago, there was a new drug introduced on the market. Surfactant. To give surfactant, an endotracheal tube had to be placed down the trachea. Miracle drug! What if the physicians didn't want to try it? Just saying Not by nature but by training and the exigencies of pragmatic practice. How do you explain all those receptive doctors on MNKD's lists and virtually no sales. see my second post in this thread here: mnkd.proboards.com/thread/7280/demandQuote: by training and the exigencies of pragmatic practice. Reply: Endocrinology algorithms AACE/ACE Clinical Practice Guidelines www.aace.com/publications/guidelines The guidelines, a well trained physicians knows the guidelines forwards and backwards.
Surfactant was not in the guidelines when it put an end to some chronic lung units.
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Demand
Feb 15, 2017 16:47:48 GMT -5
Post by surplusvalue on Feb 15, 2017 16:47:48 GMT -5
Not by nature but by training and the exigencies of pragmatic practice. How do you explain all those receptive doctors on MNKD's lists and virtually no sales. see my second post in this thread here: mnkd.proboards.com/thread/7280/demandQuote: by training and the exigencies of pragmatic practice. Reply: Endocrinology algorithms AACE/ACE Clinical Practice Guidelines www.aace.com/publications/guidelines The guidelines, a well trained physicians knows the guidelines forwards and backwards.
Surfactant was not in the guidelines when it put an end to some chronic lung units.
I wasnt talking about guidelines, I was referencing pragmatic practice or what you might call established practice (which still falls within the guidelines). And you can quote all the guidelines you want but you still didnt answer my question. My views in this thread are evidence based as well as are the others in this thread that clearly indicate the conservative character of the physicians from their own experience. Consider all the reports about the endos on this board and you have a pretty clear indication. What a physician ought to do ideally and what they actually do are often not close to one another. This partially explains why MNKD is where it is. But you already know this.
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Post by compound26 on Feb 15, 2017 17:13:22 GMT -5
Curious why the top Endos in the U.S. aren't able to get other Endo's PCP's on board. I know it's not their job to inform others but wouldn't you think by now less known endo's would be thinking lets give this a try? Endo's by nature are a conservative group. I have spoken to many Endo's from around the country. Some, younger ones, seem more willing to be believers and are willing to try Afrezza. When they see success with one patient they give it a try on another. Others, older generation, have been trained and brainwashed in believing the traditional method of treating T1&T2 is by injection which has proven to be able to control BG. The problem with the OLD METHOD is compliance on the side of the Diabetic. Once these Dr's fully understand and see the proof in writing (Like FDA APPROVED LANGUAGE ) they will jump on board. I have a dear old friend of 58 years who is an Endo in Philly and I've been informing him of all the success stories about Patients using Afrezza, but until the label is changed, and imho it will be, he's keeping away. Maybe there will be peer pressure soon but I'm not counting on it. Until the tides turn a patient MUST INSIST that his ENDO writes the script or he will find a new one who will. That kind of pressure works. I know it did for me. My Endo gave me every reason in the world why he can maintain my A1C at 5.5 without Insulin. Not sure what he was smoking but he didn't share it with me 🙂 hillsave can't agree with you more on the observation that Endo's by nature are a conservative group. I am now convinced that the doctors (Endos and PCPs) are the primary hurdles for Afrezza's success. We will need trials and label changes to make inroads on this. Insurance coverage and patient awareness are all secondary and relatively easy to address. See below what Robbin wrote on her blog. Which vividly illustrates how conservative an Endo can be. [See the doctor is aware of Afrezza. But he is far away from being ready to prescribe Afrezza]. Endo Appt For My Little Nephewafrezzafrenzy.blogspot.com/Well, today I had the honor of taking my great nephew to his endocrinology appointment-not diabetes related. Anyway, it was the first time that I'd met the dr. Very kind gentleman who, I found out, is very good friends with my endo-Ernest Asamaoh. As we were finished, I asked him if he'd ever prescribed Afrezza to his patients (he's a peds endo). INSTANTLY, he said NO WAY-NEVER. I was a little shocked.I asked why and explained I was on it and loved it. He stated his patients were too young and it causes pulmonary disease in young ones. I must have had a puzzled looked on my face as he reminded me he treated children. I then reminded him he also treated 18 and 19 year olds, which are not children. I was a little taken back by his abruptness and inability to separate the fact he treats infants to adults (though in peds). He quickly changed the subject and asked about my long acting. I said Tresiba. He RAVED about it and went on and on. OK so DRS PLEASE REALIZE AFREZZA IS FINE FOR ADULTS....ADULTS....THIS MEANS 18 AND OVER. Many 16 year olds are on it. He was not willing to be educated as he felt with his medical degree he knew about it than me. That's fine. I wasn't offended. A lot of drs are that way. It's just sad to know those older ones are missing out on a better life. He said he suggests, to those not on shots, that they use the pump. STOP. STOP RIGHT THERE. Do not recommend the pump to anyone. I can't wait for the day when all drs (because not everyone is treated by an endo) realizes this is a great product. I literally tell everyone about it. Waitresses/Waiters, the guy at Toyota who services my car, it doesn't matter to me. I tell everyone!!!!
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Post by sayhey24 on Feb 15, 2017 18:02:37 GMT -5
Endo's by nature are a conservative group. I have spoken to many Endo's from around the country. Some, younger ones, seem more willing to be believers and are willing to try Afrezza. When they see success with one patient they give it a try on another. Others, older generation, have been trained and brainwashed in believing the traditional method of treating T1&T2 is by injection which has proven to be able to control BG. The problem with the OLD METHOD is compliance on the side of the Diabetic. Once these Dr's fully understand and see the proof in writing (Like FDA APPROVED LANGUAGE ) they will jump on board. I have a dear old friend of 58 years who is an Endo in Philly and I've been informing him of all the success stories about Patients using Afrezza, but until the label is changed, and imho it will be, he's keeping away. Maybe there will be peer pressure soon but I'm not counting on it. Until the tides turn a patient MUST INSIST that his ENDO writes the script or he will find a new one who will. That kind of pressure works. I know it did for me. My Endo gave me every reason in the world why he can maintain my A1C at 5.5 without Insulin. Not sure what he was smoking but he didn't share it with me 🙂 hillsave can't agree with you more on the observation that Endo's by nature are a conservative group. I am now convinced that the doctors (Endos and PCPs) are the primary hurdles for Afrezza's success. We will need trials and label changes to make inroads on this. Insurance coverage and patient awareness are all secondary and relatively easy to address. See below what Robbin wrote on her blog. Which vividly illustrates how conservative an Endo can be. [See the doctor is aware of Afrezza. But he is far away from being ready to prescribe Afrezza]. Endo Appt For My Little Nephewafrezzafrenzy.blogspot.com/Well, today I had the honor of taking my great nephew to his endocrinology appointment-not diabetes related. Anyway, it was the first time that I'd met the dr. Very kind gentleman who, I found out, is very good friends with my endo-Ernest Asamaoh. As we were finished, I asked him if he'd ever prescribed Afrezza to his patients (he's a peds endo). INSTANTLY, he said NO WAY-NEVER. I was a little shocked.I asked why and explained I was on it and loved it. He stated his patients were too young and it causes pulmonary disease in young ones. I must have had a puzzled looked on my face as he reminded me he treated children. I then reminded him he also treated 18 and 19 year olds, which are not children. I was a little taken back by his abruptness and inability to separate the fact he treats infants to adults (though in peds). He quickly changed the subject and asked about my long acting. I said Tresiba. He RAVED about it and went on and on. OK so DRS PLEASE REALIZE AFREZZA IS FINE FOR ADULTS....ADULTS....THIS MEANS 18 AND OVER. Many 16 year olds are on it. He was not willing to be educated as he felt with his medical degree he knew about it than me. That's fine. I wasn't offended. A lot of drs are that way. It's just sad to know those older ones are missing out on a better life. He said he suggests, to those not on shots, that they use the pump. STOP. STOP RIGHT THERE. Do not recommend the pump to anyone. I can't wait for the day when all drs (because not everyone is treated by an endo) realizes this is a great product. I literally tell everyone about it. Waitresses/Waiters, the guy at Toyota who services my car, it doesn't matter to me. I tell everyone!!!! I think Robbin's experience sums up the problem. The BP sales guys have done a great job of spreading FUD while no one has every explained to the doctors what afrezza is - human insulin, the exact same insulin secreted from the pancreas. It would have been interesting to ask him if inert dust and pancreas secreted insulin cause pulmonary disease. It would then have been interesting to ask him why Al Mann developed afrezza - he saw the limitation of the pump technology being the insulin not the technology and went off in search of a better insulin. When he found it he realized that afrezza obsoleted the pump even before Tresiba was available.
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Post by sportsrancho on Feb 15, 2017 18:09:07 GMT -5
I asked why and explained I was on it and loved it. He stated his patients were too young and it causes pulmonary disease in young ones. I must have had a puzzled looked on my face as he reminded me he treated children. I then reminded him he also treated 18 and 19 year olds, which are not children. I was a little taken back by his abruptness and inability to separate the fact he treats infants to adults (though in peds).
How can they get away with this?
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Post by nadathing on Feb 15, 2017 18:19:37 GMT -5
Every diabetic that a friend and I convinced to request Afrezza was turned down by the doctor; if doctors are not on-board no amount of consumer advertising is going to increase scripts. I told my doctor I wanted Bydureon after it was approved. Prior to approval I was on a 3 year P3 trial and had excellent results. After my trial it took a year to get approved and I was bummed. When I told my doc, she was very reluctant. She had never heard of Bydureon, even though the study was done in her medical complex (The International Diabetes Center in St. Louis Park, MN). How is it that the IDC does a study and yet the endos are left in the dark? My doctor said she wanted to research it before prescribing it. She then called me and highly recommended against it because of the black box warning. I said I wanted it anyway and she prescribed it. Patient demand will drive sales.
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Post by sayhey24 on Feb 15, 2017 18:21:16 GMT -5
I asked why and explained I was on it and loved it. He stated his patients were too young and it causes pulmonary disease in young ones. I must have had a puzzled looked on my face as he reminded me he treated children. I then reminded him he also treated 18 and 19 year olds, which are not children. I was a little taken back by his abruptness and inability to separate the fact he treats infants to adults (though in peds). How can they get away with this? Easy - The BP sales guys have done a great job of spreading FUD while no one has every explained to the doctors what afrezza is. The BP guys went out on the offense and Sanofi pulled back. The good news is afrezza really is as good as we think it is and really can mimic a healthy pancreas. Now, our new sales team needs to get the word out and be persistent. They need an answer for all this FUD. Its out there in studies. It may be helpful to have Peppy and others put these studies all together in the resource area so the sales guys have a starting place to look. Things like all the intensive insulin studies; studies on inert dusk inhalation, time in zone vs A1c, etc.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Demand
Feb 15, 2017 18:34:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 18:34:33 GMT -5
nadathing unfortunately, most are not as assertive as you.
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Demand
Feb 15, 2017 18:57:48 GMT -5
Post by peppy on Feb 15, 2017 18:57:48 GMT -5
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Post by wgreystone on Feb 15, 2017 19:20:21 GMT -5
I asked why and explained I was on it and loved it. He stated his patients were too young and it causes pulmonary disease in young ones. I must have had a puzzled looked on my face as he reminded me he treated children. I then reminded him he also treated 18 and 19 year olds, which are not children. I was a little taken back by his abruptness and inability to separate the fact he treats infants to adults (though in peds). How can they get away with this? Easy - The BP sales guys have done a great job of spreading FUD while no one has every explained to the doctors what afrezza is. The BP guys went out on the offense and Sanofi pulled back. The good news is afrezza really is as good as we think it is and really can mimic a healthy pancreas. Now, our new sales team needs to get the word out and be persistent. They need an answer for all this FUD. Its out there in studies. It may be helpful to have Peppy and others put these studies all together in the resource area so the sales guys have a starting place to look. Things like all the intensive insulin studies; studies on inert dusk inhalation, time in zone vs A1c, etc. Those doctors that are not willing to learn about new treatment options should soon be replaced by AI, like IBM's Walston.
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