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Post by dreamboatcruise on Aug 16, 2017 19:33:20 GMT -5
I can see Dexcom..and Verily Life Sciences adding One Drop...Also..I can see ALL hexomeric insulins are in a state of flat-line...saturated market...they are over...The worlds only inhaled monomeric prandial insulin is also the only FDA approved insulin set for growth...Large pharma Novo Nordisk has some decisions to make...growth is over for them...if they don't and they know it... Itell - Dexcom to One Drop - done www.seapeptide.com/single-post/2016/11/10/Analyzing-Data-With-One-DropHere is the issue with Verily. They will be competing with One Drop. They own 50% of Onduo which is building their own monitoring/dosing/performance based insurance business. They started thinking dosing was going to be a very hard problem. Then they realized between Tresiba and afrezza most of the variables have been eliminated and its a simple flow control problem. They are suppose to launch in 2018 so they should be announcing their product offering soon. Dr. Steve Edelman, afrezza user and advocate is the architect of the Ondou protocol. While we don't know what the protocol will be yet a pretty good assumption is the good doctor will be incorporating at least part of what he is personally using, afrezza. Incorporating Tresiba is probably not going to happen since Sanofi owns the other 50% and they are probably going to want Toujeo as the main basal. In the case of T2s if they follow the VDex protocol with afrezza first, the PWDs will never progress to a basal so the Toujeo sales will not be that much anyway. When you say "they" who specifically do you mean, and how do you know what they have or haven't realized?
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Post by sayhey24 on Aug 16, 2017 19:43:15 GMT -5
I read a lot.
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Aug 16, 2017 19:51:11 GMT -5
I can imagine a future where Afrezza experiences growth quarter over quarter...no other insulin has that potential as they have been flat line since 2014...saturated...as the future comes forth..it includes superior prandial inhaled insulin...possible front line against flat line insulins...so..a bidding war...Sanofi doesn't want to be a partner...maybe an owner...then there is Novo Nordisk...flat lined...hmm...Afrezza has improved insurance..possibly better pricing once superiority is shown...even though it has already shown superiority in glucose with One Drop comes superior A1C reductions...Then close loop..superior effects...I just don't see this possibility on the horizon for ANY other insulin provider...and..neither do they..as reality sets in...they hope to have saved up enough for a rainy day...cause it's raining!
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Aug 16, 2017 19:52:00 GMT -5
Who are "they" and did they specifically say what you are claiming to know they think? Can you post or point us to what you read to make you believe that?
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Post by sayhey24 on Aug 16, 2017 19:57:58 GMT -5
DBC - believe what you want and understand this is a message board. Most of what is here could be totally made up. Do your own research. Find out what the Ondou systems are being developed in and join the engineering development boards. There is a great deal freely available information on the internet if you look. Now, Verily convinced SNY that their part of the deal to match the $248M SNY ponied up was in "technology". What technology would that be? Now go join those engineering groups and see whats going on. NFR
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Post by sayhey24 on Aug 16, 2017 20:10:43 GMT -5
I can imagine a future where Afrezza experiences growth quarter over quarter...no other insulin has that potential as they have been flat line since 2014...saturated...as the future comes forth..it includes superior prandial inhaled insulin...possible front line against flat line insulins...so..a bidding war...Sanofi doesn't want to be a partner...maybe an owner...then there is Novo Nordisk...flat lined...hmm...Afrezza has improved insurance..possibly better pricing once superiority is shown...even though it has already shown superiority in glucose with One Drop comes superior A1C reductions...Then close loop..superior effects...I just don't see this possibility on the horizon for ANY other insulin provider...and..neither do they..as reality sets in...they hope to have saved up enough for a rainy day...cause it's raining! Yes, we are in violent agreement. Afrezza is the only med which can address the main issue diabetics have which is meal time sugar spikes. The future is all about blunting the spikes and keeping the PWD in a non-diabetic range. Thats the beauty of technology we discussed years ago. I saw it was here coming out of ADA 2017 Novo Nordisk and the rest have no new developments. Fiasp is a mess with all kinds of injection site issues and is still too damn slow. However I don't see the tradition BP being the only ones competing. Microsoft has a secret project for teledoc, Apple is already doing something with the CGM but probably more with teledoc, IBM Watson wants to play somehow, we know about Onduo and then we have Amazon who also seems to have a secret project. How desperate is Roche buying MySugr. Do they really think they can compete with the big boys? I think its going to be the tech companies working with the Oscars, AllLifes, plus the traditionals. We know Aetna is doing an IWatch deal. Just like Progressive and Liberty Mutual have performance based pricing on car insurance if you put the tongle in your car, the insurance companies will also be performance based using the CGM. AllLife already is.
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Aug 16, 2017 20:46:55 GMT -5
Afrezza is the worlds only monomeric insulin. The leading KOL's say, "it's obvious Afrezza halts progression" In a Zero Carb intake with type 2 Afrezza taken alone..where the subjects ate nothing..had zero hypo's No daily titration..no carb counting.. No wieght gain or weight neutral.. Superior control of blood glucose.. Reduces insulin resistance.. No site scaring.. Systemically delivered with less than a 30 second difference to a healthy pancreas's human insulin..both of which are in monomeric (singular) active form...(no one else's insulin is monomeric..there insulins are ALL inactive Hexomeric (six packs zinc bonded together..takes the body's blood an hour to eat through that zinc to then dispatch monomers..so slow..too slow)The Kinetic profile of Afrezza matches the healthy individuals kinetic profile..can't put a pencil mark between them.. Oh..and Afrezza happens to be inhaled...so..no shot..So you see world..Afrezza has "Clinical" benefits to the patient..and should be classified as ultra rapid acting...front line...going forwards...just remember Bill Gates started in a garage...Al started on a farm...small beginnings...thinking back..I paid $2500 for my first computer...should have bought the stock instead..(agghh!).in Afrezza's case with half a billion diabtetics...at $4 billion for every 2 million patients per year per factory..well..it's perhaps the largest pharma opportunity in the history of pharma..(speculating long)
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Post by sayhey24 on Aug 16, 2017 20:59:23 GMT -5
Hexomeric, IMO thats not the worst part. They are all analogs. Their molecules have been genetically engineered and look nothing like human insulin. I like to call the Nova Nordisk's AspB10 analog the Frankenstein insulin. But all the current RAAs are really nothing more than Frankenstein's sister.
Who would still be taking a non-natural GMO insulin when they can take the exact same insulin produced by the human pancreas? It sounds crazy to me.
Of course afrezza profiles exactly like the insulin released by the pancreas into the blood. Its the exact same insulin which goes directly into the blood.
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Aug 16, 2017 21:31:33 GMT -5
Al Mann put $1 billion of his own cash into Mannkind's Afrezza...(Almost 9x the current market cap) I imagine..a bright bright future when a man with 176 IQ says..this is it..Afrezza..and backed it up with all that he was..so rare an individual..many a gift to the world he has and left for humankind.
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Post by agedhippie on Aug 16, 2017 22:05:17 GMT -5
Who are "they" and did they specifically say what you are claiming to know they think? Can you post or point us to what you read to make you believe that? They don't exist. If they did he could post a link.
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Post by straightly on Aug 17, 2017 11:53:50 GMT -5
Hexomeric, IMO thats not the worst part. They are all analogs. Their molecules have been genetically engineered and look nothing like human insulin. I like to call the Nova Nordisk's AspB10 analog the Frankenstein insulin. But all the current RAAs are really nothing more than Frankenstein's sister. Who would still be taking a non-natural GMO insulin when they can take the exact same insulin produced by the human pancreas? It sounds crazy to me. Of course afrezza profiles exactly like the insulin released by the pancreas into the blood. Its the exact same insulin which goes directly into the blood. WoW, that would be a nuclear bomb. How true is it? Afrezza, human insulin vs. GMO insulin? If that is true, put a few stickers at the Organic Food section in Walmart or Krogger might start a fire of sales.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Aug 17, 2017 12:08:41 GMT -5
Hexomeric, IMO thats not the worst part. They are all analogs. Their molecules have been genetically engineered and look nothing like human insulin. I like to call the Nova Nordisk's AspB10 analog the Frankenstein insulin. But all the current RAAs are really nothing more than Frankenstein's sister. Who would still be taking a non-natural GMO insulin when they can take the exact same insulin produced by the human pancreas? It sounds crazy to me. Of course afrezza profiles exactly like the insulin released by the pancreas into the blood. Its the exact same insulin which goes directly into the blood. WoW, that would be a nuclear bomb. How true is it? Afrezza, human insulin vs. GMO insulin? If that is true, put a few stickers at the Organic Food section in Walmart or Krogger might start a fire of sales. Afrezza is also produced by microbes using genetic engineering. It is correct that Afrezza's insulin component (RHI) once separated from the carrier is exactly the same as endogenous insulin. Of course RHI is also available on the market in liquid form, and is thus as "natural" (or not depending on your view of genetic engineering) as is Afrezza. RAA's have slight modifications to insulin molecule that change absorption profile but don't otherwise alter metabolic effect. For instance lispro (first RAA) modifies the end of the chain such that it still has normal metabolic effect but inhibits the formation of dimers and hexamers leaving a higher concentration of monomers which reach the bloodstream quicker. Once in the bloodstream it behaves just like RHI... or endogenous insulin.
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Post by akemp3000 on Aug 17, 2017 12:41:53 GMT -5
It sounds like "Once in the bloodstream..." is the Achilles heal that's now being exposed by Afrezza. If they both perform the same as RHI, why does it take current RAAs so long to leave the bloodstream? Just asking.
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Post by agedhippie on Aug 17, 2017 12:55:39 GMT -5
Hexomeric, IMO thats not the worst part. They are all analogs. Their molecules have been genetically engineered and look nothing like human insulin. I like to call the Nova Nordisk's AspB10 analog the Frankenstein insulin. But all the current RAAs are really nothing more than Frankenstein's sister. Who would still be taking a non-natural GMO insulin when they can take the exact same insulin produced by the human pancreas? It sounds crazy to me. Of course afrezza profiles exactly like the insulin released by the pancreas into the blood. Its the exact same insulin which goes directly into the blood. WoW, that would be a nuclear bomb. How true is it? Afrezza, human insulin vs. GMO insulin? If that is true, put a few stickers at the Organic Food section in Walmart or Krogger might start a fire of sales. Making insulin from GMOs was a huge step forwards, but it's not an organics story. Not least because an organic certification requires that the process be organic from end to end so having a GMO (Frankenstein) bacteria in the middle of the process is a fail.
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Post by agedhippie on Aug 17, 2017 15:02:56 GMT -5
It sounds like "Once in the bloodstream..." is the Achilles heal that's now being exposed by Afrezza. If they both perform the same as RHI, why does it take current RAAs so long to leave the bloodstream? Just asking. It's not leaving the blood stream that takes so long, it's because insulin gets into the blood stream over a long period because of the delivery mechanism. When you inject it is into subcutaneous fat you create a small bubble of insulin which then leaches into the fine capillaries and so into the bloodstream. If you deliver it via IV it is behaves (onset and clearance) exactly like Regular insulin. There are ways to inject to get much faster action but they are not pleasant.
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