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Post by dreamboatcruise on Apr 19, 2018 12:14:14 GMT -5
I am showing at fidelity that the rate is: MANNKIND CORP COM NEW BORROW RATE 16.875 %Wow, so Fidelity is only making 2% on the spread! I bet the rate paid will drop further. Too bad we can’t get a real squeeze that so many of us have dreamed about! I still suspect that there isn't a huge amount of covering and that the shift in loan rates has more to do with additional shares ending up in hands willing to loan... possibly from the recent share offering.
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Post by boca1girl on Apr 19, 2018 13:29:54 GMT -5
Wow, so Fidelity is only making 2% on the spread! I bet the rate paid will drop further. Too bad we can’t get a real squeeze that so many of us have dreamed about! I still suspect that there isn't a huge amount of covering and that the shift in loan rates has more to do with additional shares ending up in hands willing to loan... possibly from the recent share offering. If that is the case, who other than Fidelity and Schawb are peddling the shares from the recent share offering?
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Apr 19, 2018 13:42:55 GMT -5
I still suspect that there isn't a huge amount of covering and that the shift in loan rates has more to do with additional shares ending up in hands willing to loan... possibly from the recent share offering. If that is the case, who other than Fidelity and Schawb are peddling the shares from the recent share offering? I don't believe these two are the sole sources to borrow shares from. Perhaps there aren't many brokers other than these two that offer to let retail clients like myself participate in loaning, but I suspect most institutional investors or hedge funds would be set up to loan shares out. These are simply my assumptions of how this works so take with a proper dose of salt. Oh, and I'm also assuming that just because I got shares returned doesn't mean there were necessarily returned shares from shorts. Call me a cynic, but I would suspect that if a more important customer of Schwab (i.e. more money than me) wanted to put shares out for loan, Schwab would probably take theirs and return mine.
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Post by traderdennis on Apr 19, 2018 15:01:03 GMT -5
If that is the case, who other than Fidelity and Schawb are peddling the shares from the recent share offering? I don't believe these two are the sole sources to borrow shares from. Perhaps there aren't many brokers other than these two that offer to let retail clients like myself participate in loaning, but I suspect most institutional investors or hedge funds would be set up to loan shares out. These are simply my assumptions of how this works so take with a proper dose of salt. Oh, and I'm also assuming that just because I got shares returned doesn't mean there were necessarily returned shares from shorts. Call me a cynic, but I would suspect that if a more important customer of Schwab (i.e. more money than me) wanted to put shares out for loan, Schwab would probably take theirs and return mine. Fidelity has a minimum account size 250K I believe before they will pay interest on lending shares. More shares could end up in retail hands and Fidelity will loan them out and keep the premium. Also any customer who has their shares partially or fully margined looses the right to collect interest no matter what the size of the account is. MNKD is also part of the Russell 3K, so any of the shares tied in a mutual fund, or ETF Russell index, controlled by Fidelity, Schwab (blackrock) will be lent out first before retail has the opportunity to lend their shares.
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Post by boca1girl on Apr 19, 2018 15:06:37 GMT -5
If that is the case, who other than Fidelity and Schawb are peddling the shares from the recent share offering? I don't believe these two are the sole sources to borrow shares from. Perhaps there aren't many brokers other than these two that offer to let retail clients like myself participate in loaning, but I suspect most institutional investors or hedge funds would be set up to loan shares out. These are simply my assumptions of how this works so take with a proper dose of salt. Oh, and I'm also assuming that just because I got shares returned doesn't mean there were necessarily returned shares from shorts. Call me a cynic, but I would suspect that if a more important customer of Schwab (i.e. more money than me) wanted to put shares out for loan, Schwab would probably take theirs and return mine. The large number of shares I hold worked against me. As I stated the other day, if Fidelity gets a large number of shares returned, they will first credit them back to the largest holders, if they think they can loan them back out quickly. It is easier for them to return shares to 10 accounts rather than 100 smaller accounts. My husband owns far fewer shares than I but his shares were not returned and are still 100% loaned out. Mine are only about 70% loaned out.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Apr 19, 2018 15:10:10 GMT -5
I don't believe these two are the sole sources to borrow shares from. Perhaps there aren't many brokers other than these two that offer to let retail clients like myself participate in loaning, but I suspect most institutional investors or hedge funds would be set up to loan shares out. These are simply my assumptions of how this works so take with a proper dose of salt. Oh, and I'm also assuming that just because I got shares returned doesn't mean there were necessarily returned shares from shorts. Call me a cynic, but I would suspect that if a more important customer of Schwab (i.e. more money than me) wanted to put shares out for loan, Schwab would probably take theirs and return mine. The large number of shares I hold worked against me. As I stated the other day, if Fidelity gets a large number of shares returned, they will first credit them back to the largest holders, if they think they can loan them back out quickly. It is easier for them to return shares to 10 accounts rather than 100 smaller accounts. My husband owns far fewer shares than I but his shares were not returned and are still 100% loaned out. Mine are only about 70% loaned out. Interestingly, when Schwab returned shares to me recently it was the two accounts with fewer shares rather than the one with significantly more shares. Guess they have different methods to their madness. I'm at 60% on loan now.
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Post by boca1girl on Apr 19, 2018 15:19:42 GMT -5
I don't believe these two are the sole sources to borrow shares from. Perhaps there aren't many brokers other than these two that offer to let retail clients like myself participate in loaning, but I suspect most institutional investors or hedge funds would be set up to loan shares out. These are simply my assumptions of how this works so take with a proper dose of salt. Oh, and I'm also assuming that just because I got shares returned doesn't mean there were necessarily returned shares from shorts. Call me a cynic, but I would suspect that if a more important customer of Schwab (i.e. more money than me) wanted to put shares out for loan, Schwab would probably take theirs and return mine. Fidelity has a minimum account size 250K I believe before they will pay interest on lending shares. More shares could end up in retail hands and Fidelity will loan them out and keep the premium. Also any customer who has their shares partially or fully margined looses the right to collect interest no matter what the size of the account is. MNKD is also part of the Russell 3K, so any of the shares tied in a mutual fund, or ETF Russell index, controlled by Fidelity, Schwab (blackrock) will be lent out first before retail has the opportunity to lend their shares. This was not true in my case. I hold shares in a margin account and collect interest on MNKD but I currently do not have a margin balance, if that makes the difference.
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Post by traderdennis on Apr 19, 2018 15:22:05 GMT -5
Fidelity has a minimum account size 250K I believe before they will pay interest on lending shares. More shares could end up in retail hands and Fidelity will loan them out and keep the premium. Also any customer who has their shares partially or fully margined looses the right to collect interest no matter what the size of the account is. MNKD is also part of the Russell 3K, so any of the shares tied in a mutual fund, or ETF Russell index, controlled by Fidelity, Schwab (blackrock) will be lent out first before retail has the opportunity to lend their shares. This was not true in my case. I hold shares in a margin account and collect interest on MNKD but I currently do not have a margin balance, if that makes the difference. Yes, not having a margin balance makes the difference. Once you have a margin balance, then the shares revert to the house for control.
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Post by boca1girl on Apr 19, 2018 17:07:16 GMT -5
A big number of my shares returned again this afternoon, now down to only 35% of my total shares on loan. Rate still at 14.875% at close.
I’ve never had this much return activity on my loaned shares. I only hope that the share price rises to offset the lost interest.
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Post by boytroy88 on Apr 19, 2018 18:11:04 GMT -5
A big number of my shares returned again this afternoon, now down to only 35% of my total shares on loan. Rate still at 14.875% at close. I’ve never had this much return activity on my loaned shares. I only hope that the share price rises to offset the lost interest. Do you recall when the SP shot up to around $6 were your loan out shares activity different from usual?
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Apr 19, 2018 18:24:20 GMT -5
A big number of my shares returned again this afternoon, now down to only 35% of my total shares on loan. Rate still at 14.875% at close. I’ve never had this much return activity on my loaned shares. I only hope that the share price rises to offset the lost interest. Do you recall when the SP shot up to around $6 were your loan out shares activity different from usual? I had all my shares lent out in the months leading up to $6. Then after it peaked and lost around 40% of gains they returned a portion of my shares on Oct 20th. They were lent out again Jan 26th, but that was after they raised rates and I called the lending department to see if they could get them back into the program.
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Post by awesomo on Apr 19, 2018 18:27:34 GMT -5
A big number of my shares returned again this afternoon, now down to only 35% of my total shares on loan. Rate still at 14.875% at close. I’ve never had this much return activity on my loaned shares. I only hope that the share price rises to offset the lost interest. Do you recall when the SP shot up to around $6 were your loan out shares activity different from usual? No returning of shares, and a ridiculously high rate (peaked at 70%).
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Post by kc on Apr 19, 2018 20:38:04 GMT -5
I am showing at fidelity that the rate is: MANNKIND CORP COM NEW BORROW RATE 16.875 %Wow, so Fidelity is only making 2% on the spread! I bet the rate paid will drop further. Too bad we can’t get a real squeeze that so many of us have dreamed about! They are currently charging 55% to borrow shares
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Post by kc on Apr 19, 2018 20:43:14 GMT -5
Fidelity has a minimum account size 250K I believe before they will pay interest on lending shares. More shares could end up in retail hands and Fidelity will loan them out and keep the premium. Also any customer who has their shares partially or fully margined looses the right to collect interest no matter what the size of the account is. MNKD is also part of the Russell 3K, so any of the shares tied in a mutual fund, or ETF Russell index, controlled by Fidelity, Schwab (blackrock) will be lent out first before retail has the opportunity to lend their shares. This was not true in my case. I hold shares in a margin account and collect interest on MNKD but I currently do not have a margin balance, if that makes the difference. I also have a margin account but hold my MannKind shares designated as cash so they do loan them out an pay me interest. I have held a couple of other positions that shorts are stretched on and get paid to lend them out. Many stocks have a big short following and brokers make a lot of money off of them.
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Post by boca1girl on Apr 19, 2018 20:58:47 GMT -5
A big number of my shares returned again this afternoon, now down to only 35% of my total shares on loan. Rate still at 14.875% at close. I’ve never had this much return activity on my loaned shares. I only hope that the share price rises to offset the lost interest. Do you recall when the SP shot up to around $6 were your loan out shares activity different from usual? My shares have been consistently loaned out. They were not returned during that moon shot above $6. This latest activity has not happened to me in the 3 years that I’ve participated in the loan program.
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