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Post by boca1girl on Jan 22, 2020 13:46:18 GMT -5
For once it would be nice if everyone called their shares back and stopped helping the Shorts. Loaning shares to short doesn’t do the stock price nor Longs any favors. Now is the time to stop helping the enemy! Like boca has been keeping track of, brokerages aren’t even offering to pay interest to loan shares for the most part for quite awhile. I’m not loaning shares for less interest than my bank account either, 75% is a different story though lol. For clarification, Fidelity told me that they just didn’t have much demand. Only 25% of the shares available to them were out on loan and Fidelity was only paying 1.5%. That was about two weeks ago. Yesterday and today a few of my shares went out but the rate paid dropped to 1.3875%. |
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Post by traderdennis on Jan 22, 2020 14:03:06 GMT -5
No, it was because it was a completely fabricated raise at $6 that people in the know shorted at any cost. Pre-paid lending and extremely high interest was being paid long before the $6 p&d, I would like to know what happened that made the interest rate go down. For years those that qualified for the pre-paid lending program were making substantial monthly dividends, then just like that, it was over. We still have high short interest, they’re still borrowing shares, just not paying what they were. whatever it is/was, it’s certainly more than just supply and demand. What changed?? Dilution + Supply and demand. IIRC a doubling of outstanding shares occurred between 2017 and end of 2019. |
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Loan Rate
Jan 22, 2020 14:03:19 GMT -5
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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 22, 2020 14:03:19 GMT -5
Like boca has been keeping track of, brokerages aren’t even offering to pay interest to loan shares for the most part for quite awhile. I’m not loaning shares for less interest than my bank account either, 75% is a different story though lol. For clarification, Fidelity told me that they just didn’t have much demand. Only 25% of the shares available to them were out on loan and Fidelity was only paying 1.5%. That was about two weeks ago. Yesterday and today a few of my shares went out but the rate paid dropped to 1.3875%. So the higher the loan rate the more chance the stock goes down? So really when the loan rate goes way up you should be selling not loaning? |
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Post by Thundersnow on Jan 22, 2020 14:08:29 GMT -5
For clarification, Fidelity told me that they just didn’t have much demand. Only 25% of the shares available to them were out on loan and Fidelity was only paying 1.5%. That was about two weeks ago. Yesterday and today a few of my shares went out but the rate paid dropped to 1.3875%. So the higher the loan rate the more chance the stock goes down? So really when the loan rate goes way up you should be selling not loaning? My strategy if the rate goes way up is to take that money and bank it until the stock drops and buy more shares. In 2018 I earned something like $35,000 in interest by loaning my MNKD shares and I used that money to buy more shares. |
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Loan Rate
Jan 22, 2020 14:10:49 GMT -5
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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 22, 2020 14:10:49 GMT -5
So the higher the loan rate the more chance the stock goes down? So really when the loan rate goes way up you should be selling not loaning? My strategy if the rate goes way up is to take that money and bank it until the stock drops and buy more shares. In 2018 I earned something like $35,000 in interest by loaning my MNKD shares and I used that money to buy more shares. Got it. Good job |
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Post by boca1girl on Jan 22, 2020 14:18:40 GMT -5
So the higher the loan rate the more chance the stock goes down? So really when the loan rate goes way up you should be selling not loaning? My strategy if the rate goes way up is to take that money and bank it until the stock drops and buy more shares. In 2018 I earned something like $35,000 in interest by loaning my MNKD shares and I used that money to buy more shares. I plowed all my interest earned back into MNKD stock also. That has been a loosing strategy SO FAR. Hopefully it works out. |
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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 22, 2020 14:22:40 GMT -5
OK so my real point is, there doesn’t look to be any signs that the stock is going to go down...
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Post by ktim on Jan 22, 2020 16:03:35 GMT -5
A few more of my shares lent out this morning but rate paid dropped to 1.3875% Schwab actually shut down my lending accounts a few months ago, and shares hadn't been out for at least several months prior to that. Hardly seems worth arguing when the rates are dropping this low. Soon it seems they'll be in the territory of bank interest rates where it starts with a leading zero or two. |
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Post by ktim on Jan 22, 2020 16:09:07 GMT -5
Pre-paid lending and extremely high interest was being paid long before the $6 p&d, I would like to know what happened that made the interest rate go down. For years those that qualified for the pre-paid lending program were making substantial monthly dividends, then just like that, it was over. We still have high short interest, they’re still borrowing shares, just not paying what they were. whatever it is/was, it’s certainly more than just supply and demand. What changed?? Dilution + Supply and demand. IIRC a doubling of outstanding shares occurred between 2017 and end of 2019. I think more than doubling if one counts all the allocated shares such as employee incentive pool. It wasn't long ago we were under 100M. Not sure exactly where we stand but it's over 250M. I think we're getting close to a tripling in allocated shares over just the past few years. Though I guess allocated but not exchange registered shares shouldn't alter supply-demand for shorting purposes. But absolutely, the extra shares from dilution are a big part of killing the relative demand for borrowed shares. When MNKD authorized 140M extra shares, many assumed that they would quickly use them. Basically shorters were just front running the company and dumping a bunch of extra shares onto the market so they could profit from the drop, knowing the company would supply them shares to cover. But when they were looking at 140M short opportunity when the float was only about 100M, it's going to really send the borrow rate sky high. Now that most of those 140M are in the float, the loan rates collapsed. |
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Post by ktim on Jan 22, 2020 16:25:32 GMT -5
So the higher the loan rate the more chance the stock goes down? So really when the loan rate goes way up you should be selling not loaning? My strategy if the rate goes way up is to take that money and bank it until the stock drops and buy more shares. In 2018 I earned something like $35,000 in interest by loaning my MNKD shares and I used that money to buy more shares. That was mine as well. Got shares ranging from all time low to about $1.20 all from loan interest prior to that. Since I just jettisoned my very old shares for tax loss purposes, my main trading account looks like I've made money on MNKD... LOL. Though if I look at my retirement accounts I'm reminded of the folly of the endeavor. |
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Post by boca1girl on Jan 25, 2020 7:37:16 GMT -5
All of the MNKD shares in two of my three accounts were returned yesterday. It was only a small percentage of my total holdings but most had been lent out for just two days before being returned.
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Post by brotherm1 on Jan 25, 2020 8:09:38 GMT -5
Good stuff boca. I believe you’ve been lending out your MNKD shares for several years? Do you think or feel there has been much less demand for them very recently than ever before (especially pertaining to a time after a fairly significant run-up in share price?)
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Post by stockwhisperer on Jan 25, 2020 8:22:44 GMT -5
We have MNKD stock in 2 accounts... 133,650 shares in one & 84,553 in the other. I thought, last year, I stopped loaning shares in both but to my surprise when looking at the accounts last night, the shares in the account w/84,553 shares in it, shows that all of those shares were loaned out yesterday (1-24). The loan rate at Fidelity is 1.375%.
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Post by boca1girl on Jan 25, 2020 8:46:33 GMT -5
Good stuff boca. I believe you’ve been lending out your MNKD shares for several years? Do you think or feel there has been much less demand for them very recently than ever before (especially pertaining to a time after a fairly significant run-up in share price?) Yes. These last few months have been the lowest demand for my shares since I’ve been in the loan program. |
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Post by boca1girl on Jan 25, 2020 8:50:04 GMT -5
We have MNKD stock in 2 accounts... 133,650 shares in one & 84,553 in the other. I thought, last year, I stopped loaning shares in both but to my surprise when looking at the accounts last night, the shares in the account w/84,553 shares in it, shows that all of those shares were loaned out yesterday (1-24). The loan rate at Fidelity is 1.375%. Very strange since 26,000 of mine were returned and I had many more shares available to loan. Most of mine had been out on loan until a few months ago. |
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