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Post by nadathing on Sept 18, 2017 17:47:02 GMT -5
The truth is, most people who have tried Afrezza did not experience good results and did not refill their scripts. And your proof is what? I guess you can't do math. Run the numbers for crying out loud. Total scripts written versus number of those refilling. Tells the story.
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Post by sportsrancho on Sept 18, 2017 18:04:59 GMT -5
I guess you can't do math. Run the numbers for crying out loud. Total scripts written versus number of those refilling. Tells the story. My " math " tells me it's from insurance problems not from not getting results with Afrezza.
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Post by liane on Sept 18, 2017 18:34:30 GMT -5
I guess you can't do math. Run the numbers for crying out loud. Total scripts written versus number of those refilling. Tells the story. My math is quite fine, but you still have not proven causation.
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Post by nadathing on Sept 18, 2017 19:30:54 GMT -5
I guess you can't do math. Run the numbers for crying out loud. Total scripts written versus number of those refilling. Tells the story. My math is quite fine, but you still have not proven causation. Why do you think people don't refill scripts? I wouldn't fill a script I knew I could not afford. Would you? What do you blame lack of refills on? It isn't the cost.
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Post by nylefty on Sept 18, 2017 20:35:04 GMT -5
My math is quite fine, but you still have not proven causation. Why do you think people don't refill scripts? I wouldn't fill a script I knew I could not afford. Would you? What do you blame lack of refills on? It isn't the cost. Are you unaware of the fact that many patients get their initial prescriptions filled at no cost to them because they receive vouchers from Mannkind? Then, if their insurance companies refuse to pay for refills, they don't get refills.
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Post by mango on Sept 18, 2017 20:38:21 GMT -5
My math is quite fine, but you still have not proven causation. Why do you think people don't refill scripts? I wouldn't fill a script I knew I could not afford. Would you? What do you blame lack of refills on? It isn't the cost. Ignorance is what I blame it on. These folks do not know what glucose homeostasis is. That's a problem. If they did the Standards of Care would have been changed. There are some docs that know without a doubt a med works and hammers it into the patient's brain that they need to reshuffle their priorities (less junk food, less alcohol, less cigs, less needless spending, and focus on health). If a medication truly works and has a nil side effect profile, restores health, that is priceless. I have yet to see any negative reviews of Afrezza and the FDA Adverse Events are rated G. The Endo communities via BP are literally doing everything they can to take attention away from what health is. The ADA, AACE and ACE are largely to blame. They're controlling health and setting the guidelines that everyone and billy joe follows. The guidelines are irresponsible and are a proven failure. Majority of everyone will eventually need to end up on insulin therapy. You cannot restore glucose homeostasis without a proper insulin that actually does just that. Wait until PCPs are visited. These Endos are really buggin me with their ignorance
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Sept 18, 2017 20:39:19 GMT -5
My math is quite fine, but you still have not proven causation. Why do you think people don't refill scripts? I wouldn't fill a script I knew I could not afford. Would you? What do you blame lack of refills on? It isn't the cost. If they were giving out vouchers, personally I might fill the prescription and hope I could get authorization from insurance... and then drop it if I couldn't and faced thousands of dollars a year in cost. Well, not really knowing what I know about Afrezza, but I make good money and really understand benefit of Afrezza. Seems like we've got anecdotal evidence that both insurance (cost) and poor efficacy (likely from lack of optimal dosing) have caused people to start and then stop Afrezza. Doesn't seem like there is anyway of solving the question of relative contribution to what seems unarguably to have been poor overall retention over the commercial lifespan of Afrezza. Management probably has a much better idea than any of us and even their visibility may not be full.
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Post by mango on Sept 18, 2017 21:17:26 GMT -5
Why do you think people don't refill scripts? I wouldn't fill a script I knew I could not afford. Would you? What do you blame lack of refills on? It isn't the cost. If they were giving out vouchers, personally I might fill the prescription and hope I could get authorization from insurance... and then drop it if I couldn't and faced thousands of dollars a year in cost. Well, not really knowing what I know about Afrezza, but I make good money and really understand benefit of Afrezza. Seems like we've got anecdotal evidence that both insurance (cost) and poor efficacy (likely from lack of optimal dosing) have caused people to start and then stop Afrezza. Doesn't seem like there is anyway of solving the question of relative contribution to what seems unarguably to have been poor overall retention over the commercial lifespan of Afrezza. Management probably has a much better idea than any of us and even their visibility may not be full. Could it also be lack of attention and education? There's a recent video a woman did on Afrezza. Someone's wrote her a prrscription. She had no idea how it worked or even how to use it. Simply tossed the instructions and had no problems figuring it out. Was cool seeing how surprised she was. Bottom line, people are not cared for properly and the attention and time they need for isn't being provide to them. Endos are too busy to learn about this themselves. Inhaling scares them? My guess they're all too busy listening to a pill or injection rep to just simply obeying orders given out by the ADA. Puppets? Obviously good care exists. Why isn't it given across the board? They're afraid to admit their guidelines are a failure for one. They've never known what glucose homeostasis is. They can actually see an insulin restoring it. Shatters their world I'm sure. They actually gotta put in some care now. Who is gonna be the rogue Endo to lead the way? They're too small a group for small time people to go against the grain, they'll be burned. This group flocks together. The random good ones are a different species.
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Post by babaoriley on Sept 19, 2017 0:39:50 GMT -5
Why do you think people don't refill scripts? I wouldn't fill a script I knew I could not afford. Would you? What do you blame lack of refills on? It isn't the cost. If they were giving out vouchers, personally I might fill the prescription and hope I could get authorization from insurance... and then drop it if I couldn't and faced thousands of dollars a year in cost. Well, not really knowing what I know about Afrezza, but I make good money and really understand benefit of Afrezza. Seems like we've got anecdotal evidence that both insurance (cost) and poor efficacy (likely from lack of optimal dosing) have caused people to start and then stop Afrezza. Doesn't seem like there is anyway of solving the question of relative contribution to what seems unarguably to have been poor overall retention over the commercial lifespan of Afrezza. Management probably has a much better idea than any of us and even their visibility may not be full. Bolded portion is simply a must for those who invest in MNKD!
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Post by sportsrancho on Sept 19, 2017 9:05:44 GMT -5
I don't know anyone who it dawned on that their insurance wouldn't cover Afrezza. It's insulin. It came as a shock. Tom's T2 friend gets Afrezza from him. There are a lot more people on Afrezza than it looks like:-)
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Post by zuegirdor on Sept 19, 2017 11:49:45 GMT -5
responding to dreamboat but I chopped up the Code....he said: "Is the reason for not having a CGM that it is not covered by insurance, or simply not wanting to wear one?
Would a non-invasive BG meter help with more frequent follow up testing?
If insurance would pay for both an RAA and Afrezza would you use an RAA for meals that you think would be long digesting, or do you think the better/easier solution would be follow up doses of Afrezza?"
He does not like the CGM attached to him/ or the idea that he has a breach in his skin, a route for germs etc, that the CGM wire presents for the duration it is functional- a week. He feels vulnerable, which in some sense he is. I get his discomfort, he is also self conscious in a bathing suit with it on. I keep hoping for the smaller G-6. Wish he would wear the apple watch as he might be wiling to check himself more often.
This is really all about the psychological burden of T1D on a teen. That includes a preference not to think at all about bolusing even the first time for a meal, let alone a follow up. My advice only goes so far-a source of considerable strife in the family. That said, it is even more incredible that his A1c on Afrezza is 6.0.
He uses humalog as a last resort and as the follow up for breakfast when he has school M-F. This is also a good strategy since the 60-60-60 pack of 12u, 8u and 4u carts only lasts us about 27 or 28 days.
At least a few days a month he will eat to his heart's content, crazy deserts etc. On those days he can easily blow through 80-100 "units" of Afrezza. And why shouldn't he, except for the cost. That is normal behavior right?
Why should the medical establishment be able to enforce behavior on my son that they cannot enforce on non Type 1 diabetics or normo-glycemic individuals with the same healthcare coverage? Does his dependence on exogenous insulin justify that kind of lifestyle control over someone? The power of medical/HMO over his meal behavior is entirely inappropriate. Its not like there is a shortage of insulin. Its not like it costs more than many other medicines to make the insulin he needs. Its not like he is a drug addict or binge eater. He is 5'9" and 140 lbs.
This is basically a hostage situation with the HMO and doctors telling my son that if he wants to live he has to adapt his food intake to the amount of insulin they are willing to provide. Its like if I needed statins for cholesterol but they prescribed based on what they thought I should be eating, rather than based upon my blood levels of cholesterol. That is INSANE!
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Post by peppy on Sept 19, 2017 12:14:17 GMT -5
teenagers eat a lot. I remember my brother eating a totino's pizza when he got home from school for a snack. They are hungry. Thank you Zuegirdor. I would not want a cgm attached to me either.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Sept 19, 2017 12:14:29 GMT -5
zuegirdorCouldn't agree more. For insurance it is about money not health. Wishing a healthy and normal teen life for your son. I wonder if there is any legal argument under ADA or other statutes to try to force complete coverage for insulin. Maybe a class action.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Sept 19, 2017 12:26:31 GMT -5
teenagers eat a lot. I remember my brother eating a totino's pizza when he got home from school for a snack. They are hungry. Thank you Zuegirdor. I would not want a cgm attached to me either. It was insane what I ate as a teen and couldn't put on a pound. Ah, if only that still held. I don't think splurging when young is bad as long as it isn't a coping mechanism where it becomes something really hard to shake once the metabolism inevitably shifts from the hyperdrive of youth.
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Post by zuegirdor on Sept 19, 2017 13:36:40 GMT -5
zuegirdor Couldn't agree more. For insurance it is about money not health. Wishing a healthy and normal teen life for your son. I wonder if there is any legal argument under ADA or other statutes to try to force complete coverage for insulin. Maybe a class action. Wow! Interesting thought...by complete coverage I guess we mean enough insulin to match his metabolism rather than prescribing lifestyle "don't overexercise, don't eat betweeen meals blahblah" to match some predetermined allowance of insulin...? Class Action means finding an attorney that see's the opportunity here or is in need of a pro-bono feather for their cap? Know anybody?
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