ADA June 22 - 26, 2018

[agedhippie]

May 27, 2018 10:32:39 GMT -5 mango said:

“Every law enforcement officer in this country takes an oath to uphold the United States Constitution,” said Acting Assistant Attorney General Gore. “The Constitution ensures that persons detained pending the adjudication of charges against them are entitled to necessary medical care. This sentence affirms the importance of that right and underscores the continuing commitment of the Civil Rights Division to hold officers accountable to their oaths.”

You are confusing rights that exist with rights you think should exist. This case is in court because the Supreme Court ruled in Estelle v. Gamble that ignoring a prisoner’s serious medical needs can amount to cruel and unusual punishment. The ACLU have a nice section on why this is so:

The failure to provide prisoners with access to needed health care too often results in tragedy. It also violates the U.S. Constitution. Nearly forty years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Estelle v. Gamble that ignoring a prisoner’s serious medical needs can amount to cruel and unusual punishment, noting that “n inmate must rely on prison authorities to treat his medical needs; if the authorities fail to do so, those needs will not be met. In the worst cases, such a failure may actually produce physical torture or a lingering death[.] … In less serious cases, denial of medical care may result in pain and suffering which no one suggests would serve any penological purpose.”

There is no constitutional right to health care. There was a proposed constitutional amendment to to make it a right but it never went anywhere.

[mango]

May 27, 2018 13:11:49 GMT -5 agedhippie said:

May 27, 2018 10:32:39 GMT -5 mango said:

“Every law enforcement officer in this country takes an oath to uphold the United States Constitution,” said Acting Assistant Attorney General Gore. “The Constitution ensures that persons detained pending the adjudication of charges against them are entitled to necessary medical care. This sentence affirms the importance of that right and underscores the continuing commitment of the Civil Rights Division to hold officers accountable to their oaths.”

You are confusing rights that exist with rights you think should exist. This case is in court because the Supreme Court ruled in Estelle v. Gamble that ignoring a prisoner’s serious medical needs can amount to cruel and unusual punishment. The ACLU have a nice section on why this is so:

The failure to provide prisoners with access to needed health care too often results in tragedy. It also violates the U.S. Constitution. Nearly forty years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Estelle v. Gamble that ignoring a prisoner’s serious medical needs can amount to cruel and unusual punishment, noting that “n inmate must rely on prison authorities to treat his medical needs; if the authorities fail to do so, those needs will not be met. In the worst cases, such a failure may actually produce physical torture or a lingering death[.] … In less serious cases, denial of medical care may result in pain and suffering which no one suggests would serve any penological purpose.”

There is no constitutional right to health care. There was a proposed constitutional amendment to to make it a right but it never went anywhere.

DoJ disagrees with you, & so does the ADA:

The Legal Right to Medical Care in Correctional Facilities

1. What rights do I have when I am in jail or prison?

You have rights to adequate medical care and equal treatment guaranteed by the Constitution and federal law. The Eighth Amendment to the Constitution—prohibiting “cruel and unusual punishment”—gives convicted inmates the right to adequate medical care. The Due Process Clause to the U.S. Constitution (Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments) gives this same right to pretrial detainees.

The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is a federal law that requires equal access to services, programs, and activities for inmates with disabilities, such as diabetes. This law may be violated if inadequate care or prison policies cause an inmate to be denied access to prison programs or services. For example, if you are denied work release privileges because of your diagnosis of diabetes, this may be discrimination under the ADA.


www.diabetes.org/assets/pdfs/living/know-your-rights/law-enforcement/the-legal-right-to-medical.pdf

[agedhippie]

May 27, 2018 14:18:24 GMT -5 mango said:

May 27, 2018 13:11:49 GMT -5 agedhippie said:

You are confusing rights that exist with rights you think should exist. This case is in court because the Supreme Court ruled in Estelle v. Gamble that ignoring a prisoner’s serious medical needs can amount to cruel and unusual punishment. The ACLU have a nice section on why this is so:

The failure to provide prisoners with access to needed health care too often results in tragedy. It also violates the U.S. Constitution. Nearly forty years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Estelle v. Gamble that ignoring a prisoner’s serious medical needs can amount to cruel and unusual punishment, noting that “n inmate must rely on prison authorities to treat his medical needs; if the authorities fail to do so, those needs will not be met. In the worst cases, such a failure may actually produce physical torture or a lingering death[.] … In less serious cases, denial of medical care may result in pain and suffering which no one suggests would serve any penological purpose.”

There is no constitutional right to health care. There was a proposed constitutional amendment to to make it a right but it never went anywhere.

DoJ disagrees with you, & so does the ADA:

The Legal Right to Medical Care in Correctional Facilities

...

You seem to have changed the story. This is about constitutional rights to healthcare, or as you said:

What happens when people start being held liable for their actions? Insurers can't deprive someone from receiving medical care, it is a constitutional right. When Afrezza becomes the Standard of Care...

So lets keep this straight:

 - There is a constitutional right (8th Amendment) to not have the federal government impose a cruel and unusual punishment. The Supreme Court has ruled that depriving a person of medical facilities in prison is a cruel and unusual punishment.

 - Since you were talking insurers there is no constitutional rights since 8th Amendment doesn't apply. Insurers are (a) not government, and (b) you are free to seek medical treatment elsewhere.

[akemp3000]

Humane treatment is not the same as a constitutional right. Referencing political correctness from a corrupt judicial system filled with political opinions and rulings is not the same as a constitutional right. The only thing that makes a constitutional right is a reference to that portion of the constitution or to its amendments. I don't believe health care is in there...as least not yet

[mango]

May 27, 2018 15:53:57 GMT -5 agedhippie said:

May 27, 2018 14:18:24 GMT -5 mango said:

DoJ disagrees with you, & so does the ADA:

The Legal Right to Medical Care in Correctional Facilities

...

You seem to have changed the story. This is about constitutional rights to healthcare, or as you said:

What happens when people start being held liable for their actions? Insurers can't deprive someone from receiving medical care, it is a constitutional right. When Afrezza becomes the Standard of Care...

So lets keep this straight:

 - There is a constitutional right (8th Amendment) to not have the federal government impose a cruel and unusual punishment. The Supreme Court has ruled that depriving a person of medical facilities in prison is a cruel and unusual punishment.

 - Since you were talking insurers there is no constitutional rights since 8th Amendment doesn't apply. Insurers are (a) not government, and (b) you are free to seek medical treatment elsewhere.

I have not changed this story.

You claimed that there is no Constitutional right to healthcare. That is false. There is the 8th Amendment and also the Due Process Clauses to the Constitution, the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which gives the same Constitutional right to pretrial detainees.

[peppy]

May 27, 2018 14:18:24 GMT -5 mango said:

May 27, 2018 13:11:49 GMT -5 agedhippie said:

You are confusing rights that exist with rights you think should exist. This case is in court because the Supreme Court ruled in Estelle v. Gamble that ignoring a prisoner’s serious medical needs can amount to cruel and unusual punishment. The ACLU have a nice section on why this is so:

The failure to provide prisoners with access to needed health care too often results in tragedy. It also violates the U.S. Constitution. Nearly forty years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Estelle v. Gamble that ignoring a prisoner’s serious medical needs can amount to cruel and unusual punishment, noting that “n inmate must rely on prison authorities to treat his medical needs; if the authorities fail to do so, those needs will not be met. In the worst cases, such a failure may actually produce physical torture or a lingering death[.] … In less serious cases, denial of medical care may result in pain and suffering which no one suggests would serve any penological purpose.”

There is no constitutional right to health care. There was a proposed constitutional amendment to to make it a right but it never went anywhere.

DoJ disagrees with you, & so does the ADA:

The Legal Right to Medical Care in Correctional Facilities

1. What rights do I have when I am in jail or prison?

You have rights to adequate medical care and equal treatment guaranteed by the Constitution and federal law. The Eighth Amendment to the Constitution—prohibiting “cruel and unusual punishment”—gives convicted inmates the right to adequate medical care. The Due Process Clause to the U.S. Constitution (Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments) gives this same right to pretrial detainees.

The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is a federal law that requires equal access to services, programs, and activities for inmates with disabilities, such as diabetes. This law may be violated if inadequate care or prison policies cause an inmate to be denied access to prison programs or services. For example, if you are denied work release privileges because of your diagnosis of diabetes, this may be discrimination under the ADA.


www.diabetes.org/assets/pdfs/living/know-your-rights/law-enforcement/the-legal-right-to-medical.pdf

Quote: The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is a federal law that requires equal access to services, programs, and activities for inmates with disabilities,
Reply: I believe one of tRumps executive orders stopped at least part of the American disabilities act.
Just Sayin. (you know the handicap ramps?)

[agedhippie]

May 27, 2018 19:22:42 GMT -5 mango said:

May 27, 2018 15:53:57 GMT -5 agedhippie said:

You seem to have changed the story. This is about constitutional rights to healthcare, or as you said:

What happens when people start being held liable for their actions? Insurers can't deprive someone from receiving medical care, it is a constitutional right. When Afrezza becomes the Standard of Care...

...

I have not changed this story.

You claimed that there is no Constitutional right to healthcare. That is false. There is the 8th Amendment and also the Due Process Clauses to the Constitution, the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which gives the same Constitutional right to pretrial detainees.

Lol. The 5th amendment grants due process, and the 14th amendment grants citizenship, I think at this point you are trolling. For completeness, the 8th prevents the federal government from withholding medical care from prisoners. If you can prove that people (and not just people being held by the government) have a constitutional right to healthcare as you originally claimed lets hear it. Otherwise it is simply your wishful thinking and with that I am done with this.

[cretin11]

mango your enthusiasm is great but the constitutional analysis is sadly off the mark. on the other hand, you have successfully derailed this thread. 😆😂🤪