CBD Space and Funding

[georgethenight2]

Where to begin.  Having been a long time holder of Altria stock I have finally had the time to sit down and look at recent investments done by the company, especially the mess with Juul and the very interesting Cronos Group investment. I mention this because, is anyone familiar with Gotham Green Partners?  If you should visit their site, it is a complete throw back to the site that RLS had originally.  A picture with and email address and physical address of the business.  But their specialty is "focused on deploying capital into cannabis and cannabis-related enterprises on a global scale".   Umm okay who has an inhaler that can almost certainly be paired with any number of CBD compounds to combat a range of aliments, yup little ole Mannkind. 

I have been interested in investing Cronos Group for sometime as they have Altria leadership on the board and a hoard of cash, also courtesy of Altria.  Looking through Cronos's most recent quarterly, a 50-50 partnership with MedMen Cannabis Dispensary comes in view.  Specifically, Cronos has a 50% interest in MedMen Canada.  Living abroad as I do, and not having been back to LA for near 10 years, I searched more about them.  Well if you live in California, Florida, or an state with a large population, you might have seen one of their stores.  There are the "Apple Store" of cannabis.  However, they are bleeding money like a shotgun wound.  Also, the founders have ridiculous control over the company with shares that are called "Super Voting Shares", where 1 class A share is equal to 1000 class B shares, truly a way to screw retail investors.  And, recently they had their quarterly call, where the shit truly hit the fan, layoffs, cost cutting, divestment, a true shit storm.  But, interestingly through all of this the one thing that stood out in my mind; a freaking $250m credit facility!  Provided by none other, Gotham Green Partners.

Ok. If you have read this far, which I appreciate I will get to my point.  We have the know how, Andrea Leone-Bay former MannKind Researcher, current RLS Chief Science Officer.  We have a proven device that currently UTHR is ready to use to replace existing therapies.  What we dont have is the cash pursue other possible pipe-line canidates.  Mike needs to start pounding the table hard, and if no listens, pound the son-of-bitch harder.  Best in class, efficient inhalation, disposable, discrete, non-electrically, the list goes on.  Find a compound RLS doesnt have rights do, present the possibilities of success, sit down and get a deal done.  The MJ space is currently misunderstood, which gives companies like Mannkind a chance in my opinion.  We can go to a co like Gotham, tell them we are doing work in the CBD space and need funding to continue the work.  I wonder if they would be willing suitors?  They gave $250m to a co like MedMen, I think we could do well with less than half to expand the pipeline.

Thought and comments. 

[uvula]

Maybe cronos can buy or partner with rls?

[rfogel]

Since January, Cronos stock has dropped almost 70%. What's the problem?

[Charlie]

a year old conversation with Mike Castagna
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Eg4I4KeF2A

[sayhey24]

George - I think the first question to be answered is what is RLS doing? What is their delivery schedule going forward? I am fully expecting some discussion of the RLS plan/schedule during the 2019 earnings call next month and in addition to the rat hopefully 2020 will be the year of RLS.

[falconquest]

Nov 28, 2019 9:47:06 GMT -5 georgethenight2 said:

Where to begin.  Having been a long time holder of Altria stock I have finally had the time to sit down and look at recent investments done by the company, especially the mess with Juul and the very interesting Cronos Group investment. I mention this because, is anyone familiar with Gotham Green Partners?  If you should visit their site, it is a complete throw back to the site that RLS had originally.  A picture with and email address and physical address of the business.  But their specialty is "focused on deploying capital into cannabis and cannabis-related enterprises on a global scale".   Umm okay who has an inhaler that can almost certainly be paired with any number of CBD compounds to combat a range of aliments, yup little ole Mannkind. 

I have been interested in investing Cronos Group for sometime as they have Altria leadership on the board and a hoard of cash, also courtesy of Altria.  Looking through Cronos's most recent quarterly, a 50-50 partnership with MedMen Cannabis Dispensary comes in view.  Specifically, Cronos has a 50% interest in MedMen Canada.  Living abroad as I do, and not having been back to LA for near 10 years, I searched more about them.  Well if you live in California, Florida, or an state with a large population, you might have seen one of their stores.  There are the "Apple Store" of cannabis.  However, they are bleeding money like a shotgun wound.  Also, the founders have ridiculous control over the company with shares that are called "Super Voting Shares", where 1 class A share is equal to 1000 class B shares, truly a way to screw retail investors.  And, recently they had their quarterly call, where the shit truly hit the fan, layoffs, cost cutting, divestment, a true shit storm.  But, interestingly through all of this the one thing that stood out in my mind; a freaking $250m credit facility!  Provided by none other, Gotham Green Partners.

Ok. If you have read this far, which I appreciate I will get to my point.  We have the know how, Andrea Leone-Bay former MannKind Researcher, current RLS Chief Science Officer.  We have a proven device that currently UTHR is ready to use to replace existing therapies.  What we dont have is the cash pursue other possible pipe-line canidates.  Mike needs to start pounding the table hard, and if no listens, pound the son-of-bitch harder.  Best in class, efficient inhalation, disposable, discrete, non-electrically, the list goes on.  Find a compound RLS doesnt have rights do, present the possibilities of success, sit down and get a deal done.  The MJ space is currently misunderstood, which gives companies like Mannkind a chance in my opinion.  We can go to a co like Gotham, tell them we are doing work in the CBD space and need funding to continue the work.  I wonder if they would be willing suitors?  They gave $250m to a co like MedMen, I think we could do well with less than half to expand the pipeline.

Thought and comments. 

I like the idea but as you indicate, it takes cash. Mannkind doesn't have any. I would rather see a license agreement with another company for Technosphere rather than Mannkind have to fund yet another trial. Let someone else take the risk. Mannkind should be talking to many companies about license agreements for Technosphere. Castagna as our (ahem) marketing guy, should be promoting Technosphere while others tackle Afrezza. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

[ktim]

I think you've hit on something when you say the market is misunderstood. On the one hand, components of cannabis may have real clinical uses, but developing into a new drug is still vastly expensive, and the question is then whether the cost can be recouped when a pharma product would have to compete with the reality that MJ is a weed that is really quite easy to grow. Would there be some formulation that could demonstrate clinical superiority and could be defended with patents?

The economics of pot are still driven by it's nominal illegality... a unique period when the bold can participate in reaping money from a semi-legal illicit business.

It's truly amusing seeing the amount of money dumped into new pot retail stores in my neighborhood. You'd think they were selling Cartier. Seems a bit "irrational exuberance" period.

[mnkdfann]

Jan 13, 2020 13:31:19 GMT -5 ktim said:

It's truly amusing seeing the amount of money dumped into new pot retail stores in my neighborhood. 

Which city / state is that, if you don't mind sharing the info.

[matt]

Jan 13, 2020 13:31:19 GMT -5 ktim said:

On the one hand, components of cannabis may have real clinical uses, but developing into a new drug is still vastly expensive, and the question is then whether the cost can be recouped when a pharma product would have to compete with the reality that MJ is a weed that is really quite easy to grow. Would there be some formulation that could demonstrate clinical superiority and could be defended with patents? 

Yes, there is a light at the end of the tunnel if a developer can produce a useful drug, but extracting purified substances from prokaryotic cells is incredibly difficult to achieve.  There are many protein drugs which could be produced far more cheaply in genetically engineered plants, which can then be farmed using traditional methods, rather than rely on bacterial or mammalian cell culture.  However, protein recovery from the plant material is far more difficult to achieve so industry has stuck with cell culture.  At large part of the problem is that getting rid of all the other plant material is extremely difficult to accomplish without denaturing the protein of interest.

The value would be in the purification process, and that can easily be covered with a methods and use patent.  Additionally, FDA provides a minimum of seven years of market exclusivity to any newly approved molecule or protein regardless of any other IP protection so patents become less important at that point.  Meeting FDA's standards for purity is the tough job, and passing around a smoldering joint doesn't begin to cover those requirements. 

[mango]

Jan 13, 2020 14:27:28 GMT -5 matt said:

Jan 13, 2020 13:31:19 GMT -5 ktim said:

On the one hand, components of cannabis may have real clinical uses, but developing into a new drug is still vastly expensive, and the question is then whether the cost can be recouped when a pharma product would have to compete with the reality that MJ is a weed that is really quite easy to grow. Would there be some formulation that could demonstrate clinical superiority and could be defended with patents? 

Yes, there is a light at the end of the tunnel if a developer can produce a useful drug, but extracting purified substances from prokaryotic cells is incredibly difficult to achieve.  There are many protein drugs which could be produced far more cheaply in genetically engineered plants, which can then be farmed using traditional methods, rather than rely on bacterial or mammalian cell culture.  However, protein recovery from the plant material is far more difficult to achieve so industry has stuck with cell culture.  At large part of the problem is that getting rid of all the other plant material is extremely difficult to accomplish without denaturing the protein of interest.

The value would be in the purification process, and that can easily be covered with a methods and use patent.  Additionally, FDA provides a minimum of seven years of market exclusivity to any newly approved molecule or protein regardless of any other IP protection so patents become less important at that point.  Meeting FDA's standards for purity is the tough job, and passing around a smoldering joint doesn't begin to cover those requirements. 

Not sure what you’re on about, but Epidiolex is FDA approved and is just a Cannabis extract with a 1:1 ratio of THC:CBD. No overtly complicated steps are necessary to achieve FDA approval like you suggest.

Whole plant extract (like Epidiolex) will always be superior, this has been proven in studies already.

[letitride]

No comment.
Ooooooop's
My bad.

[rfogel]

Jan 13, 2020 15:08:57 GMT -5 mango said:

Jan 13, 2020 14:27:28 GMT -5 matt said:

Yes, there is a light at the end of the tunnel if a developer can produce a useful drug, but extracting purified substances from prokaryotic cells is incredibly difficult to achieve.  There are many protein drugs which could be produced far more cheaply in genetically engineered plants, which can then be farmed using traditional methods, rather than rely on bacterial or mammalian cell culture.  However, protein recovery from the plant material is far more difficult to achieve so industry has stuck with cell culture.  At large part of the problem is that getting rid of all the other plant material is extremely difficult to accomplish without denaturing the protein of interest.

The value would be in the purification process, and that can easily be covered with a methods and use patent.  Additionally, FDA provides a minimum of seven years of market exclusivity to any newly approved molecule or protein regardless of any other IP protection so patents become less important at that point.  Meeting FDA's standards for purity is the tough job, and passing around a smoldering joint doesn't begin to cover those requirements. 

Not sure what you’re on about, but Epidiolex is FDA approved and is just a Cannabis extract with a 1:1 ratio of THC:CBD. No overtly complicated steps are necessary to achieve FDA approval like you suggest.

Whole plant extract (like Epidiolex) will always be superior, this has been proven in studies already.

I was under the impression that epidolex was just CBD oil with no THC component. Also, I see no reason a whole plant extract be superior to a cultured product as long as they had the same chemical composition.

[mango]

Jan 14, 2020 13:03:08 GMT -5 rfogel said:

Jan 13, 2020 15:08:57 GMT -5 mango said:

Not sure what you’re on about, but Epidiolex is FDA approved and is just a Cannabis extract with a 1:1 ratio of THC:CBD. No overtly complicated steps are necessary to achieve FDA approval like you suggest.

Whole plant extract (like Epidiolex) will always be superior, this has been proven in studies already.

I was under the impression that epidolex was just CBD oil with no THC component. Also, I see no reason a whole plant extract be superior to a cultured product as long as they had the same chemical composition.

I was thinking of Sativex, you may be right.

How will you culture a product that mimics whole plant Cannabis extract? There are hundreds of cannabinoids, hundreds of non-cannabinoid compounds, terpenes and flavonoids in an extract. How will you realistically in an economically sustainable method mimic that?

I guarantee that would be significantly more expensive for a patient compared with growing the plant and doing the exact themselves or buying an extract already prepared. Whole plant medicine is simple, why complicate it and make it more expensive? I know of some groups already doing the cultured cannabinoids but I’m not yet sold on it nor impressed.

[cretin11]

When it comes to cannabinoids, you want that "entourage effect" for sure!