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Post by rombic33 on Oct 28, 2016 20:58:18 GMT -5
Is it a time to recall that or it is not any sense in that move? With the current pps, could MNKD buy back the entire float and stay afloat?
Yes, privately, but alive?
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Post by mannmade on Oct 28, 2016 21:17:31 GMT -5
If you have a spare 200m or so, then yes...
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Oct 28, 2016 21:48:23 GMT -5
1) they don't have money to buy back
2) even if they were private they'd still be headed to bankruptcy if income doesn't match or exceed expenses
I have a private company... there is no magic in being private that makes negative cash flow a non-problem.
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Post by lakon on Oct 29, 2016 3:37:42 GMT -5
1) they don't have money to buy back 2) even if they were private they'd still be headed to bankruptcy if income doesn't match or exceed expenses I have a private company... there is no magic in being private that makes negative cash flow a non-problem. 1) MNKD does not have the money, but we do not know how much the Mann affiliated entities, including the Mann Group, could come up with. The biggest shareholders might prefer to take MNKD private to right the ship, like Michael Dell did with Dell computers. 2) No, not so, anyone taking them private would have the cash and plan to execute a turnaround and IPO to cash out. That's the point of doing it. Doubly so if BK means a big shareholder, and believer, loses a billion dollars. Now, they still might fail, but BK is not a necessary condition. Negative cash flow is a problem, but how big of a problem depends on how big your piggy bank is. I'm just concerned that Al Mann's piggy bank was not as big as implied by Matt P, when in Claude's hands. I expect that we are good until the 4th of July 2017. There may be some painful dilution, but we are making a go of it for at least a year. |
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Post by brotherm1 on Oct 29, 2016 6:25:43 GMT -5
Lakon - how do you see us making it till July? Do we not now only have enough to get us through perhaps January or so?
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Post by agedhippie on Oct 29, 2016 11:01:42 GMT -5
The problem is the debt and the weak revenue stream. This is not an attractive proposition for a PE company. If someone wanted to go down that route it would be better to hang back, hope for a bankruptcy, and then go for the assets. You can take those assets and build a new company without the current baggage (debt, shareholders, contracts, staff, ...) and that is probably a lot more appealing to PE firms.
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Post by mnkdfann on Oct 29, 2016 12:46:07 GMT -5
The (IMO overblown) issue of capital loss tax credits some have mentioned before, do those vanish with a BK?
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Post by falconquest on Oct 30, 2016 21:12:10 GMT -5
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Post by matt on Oct 31, 2016 7:04:15 GMT -5
The (IMO overblown) issue of capital loss tax credits some have mentioned before, do those vanish with a BK? The simple answer is no, a loss on a capital asset is the same regardless of what causes the loss.
On going private, the debt does not go away so that has to be dealt with. The threshold for causing involuntary bankruptcy is exceedingly low, it just takes three creditors that are collectively owed a specific amount ($10,000 indexed for inflation, I forget the current amount) so there is a need to take out the debt and the equity given that the company does not generate cash. Effectively, that is equivalent to a buyout under present circumstances.
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Post by lakon on Nov 1, 2016 10:20:02 GMT -5
Lakon - how do you see us making it till July? Do we not now only have enough to get us through perhaps January or so? Game theory, RLS milestone, and/or dilution Yes. |
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Post by zuegirdor on Nov 1, 2016 13:07:44 GMT -5
If or when this sucker is in danger of going down, Mannkind needs to at least save Afrezza by selling licenses or relinquishing patent rights to its process or for $5 as U of Toronto did with first insulin in order to promote availability and markets. Afrezza is that important and that much of a scientific breakthrough for diabetics, whether they and their doctors can comprehend that now or not!
Of course widespread Afrezza use would devastate the pharmaceutical industry and thus still faces a stiff headwind. But it would allow nonprofits and philanthropist participation in a less speculative market.
Unlike liquid insulin which must be controlled since there are whack jobs that like to inject lethal doses into unsuspecting diabetics and non diabetics (the perfect crime)it would be almost impossible to kill someone with Afrezza. Cheap Afrezza could be sold from the shelves like aspirin. There is no reason not to do so.
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Post by radgray68 on Nov 1, 2016 14:03:09 GMT -5
If or when this sucker is in danger of going down, Mannkind needs to at least save Afrezza by selling licenses or relinquishing patent rights to its process or for $5 as U of Toronto did with first insulin in order to promote availability and markets. Afrezza is that important and that much of a scientific breakthrough for diabetics, whether they and their doctors can comprehend that now or not! Of course widespread Afrezza use would devastate the pharmaceutical industry and thus still faces a stiff headwind. But it would allow nonprofits and philanthropist participation in a less speculative market. Unlike liquid insulin which must be controlled since there are whack jobs that like to inject lethal doses into unsuspecting diabetics and non diabetics (the perfect crime)it would be almost impossible to kill someone with Afrezza. Cheap Afrezza could be sold from the shelves like aspirin. There is no reason not to do so. I've often wondered if selling over-the-counter is possible with Afrezza some day. T2's starting with CGM's and mealtime inhalers is what I've pictured. Unfortunately, that vision is slowly fading into oblivion these days. |
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Post by zuegirdor on Nov 1, 2016 14:16:50 GMT -5
If or when this sucker is in danger of going down, Mannkind needs to at least save Afrezza by selling licenses or relinquishing patent rights to its process or for $5 as U of Toronto did with first insulin in order to promote availability and markets. Afrezza is that important and that much of a scientific breakthrough for diabetics, whether they and their doctors can comprehend that now or not! Of course widespread Afrezza use would devastate the pharmaceutical industry and thus still faces a stiff headwind. But it would allow nonprofits and philanthropist participation in a less speculative market. Unlike liquid insulin which must be controlled since there are whack jobs that like to inject lethal doses into unsuspecting diabetics and non diabetics (the perfect crime)it would be almost impossible to kill someone with Afrezza. Cheap Afrezza could be sold from the shelves like aspirin. There is no reason not to do so. I've often wondered if selling over-the-counter is possible with Afrezza some day. T2's starting with CGM's and mealtime inhalers is what I've pictured. Unfortunately, that vision is slowly fading into oblivion these days. fading into oblivion not necessasry if Aferzza is as great as we know it to be (at least until they figure out and approve a cure). Mannkind can say to pharma and wall street "we won't allow you to harm people with diabetes any longer. we will not play your game. You have beaten us at your game. Now play OUR game. Here is the patented process for making the best insulin available, free." |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Nov 1, 2016 14:26:44 GMT -5
I've often wondered if selling over-the-counter is possible with Afrezza some day. T2's starting with CGM's and mealtime inhalers is what I've pictured. Unfortunately, that vision is slowly fading into oblivion these days. fading into oblivion not necessasry if Aferzza is as great as we know it to be (at least until they figure out and approve a cure). Mannkind can say to pharma and wall street "we won't allow you to harm people with diabetes any longer. we will not play your game. You have beaten us at your game. Now play OUR game. Here is the patented process for making the best insulin available, free." Hopefully I get to write off all my losses as a charitable contribution if they go that route. As it is I'll have enough capital loss carry over to outlive a vampire. |
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Post by zuegirdor on Nov 1, 2016 14:50:01 GMT -5
fading into oblivion not necessasry if Aferzza is as great as we know it to be (at least until they figure out and approve a cure). Mannkind can say to pharma and wall street "we won't allow you to harm people with diabetes any longer. we will not play your game. You have beaten us at your game. Now play OUR game. Here is the patented process for making the best insulin available, free." Hopefully I get to write off all my losses as a charitable contribution if they go that route. As it is I'll have enough capital loss carry over to outlive a vampire. You would have my sympathies which are, at least, worth what you paid for them  I am only in a couple grand but have major skin in the condition: in other words, if you own any Lily, Sanofi, Dexcom etc I am transferring other of my wealth into your pockets as we speak. Actually makes total sense for all Diabetics to be invested in the whole sector since it is a clawback of sorts- if you have money you can afford to lose, right? Most don't by the way, so this rationale is something of a scam. I have been losing the same chuck of money on two plays over the years(other one was an energy tech- wheeltug). When my son was diagnosed I was looking for another loser closer to "home". |
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