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Post by matt on May 24, 2017 11:08:57 GMT -5
This is exactly the number that VIVIP75 shows on his screenshot. However, the form 3 filing that is going around does not include some of those entities. Could the trust still control them, but not have to report them because of the structure? Yes, I think that is the case. This was discussed in another thread and I took the time to reconcile the numbers, but I decline to do it again because it is a lot of work. The way SEC reporting works, an entity must report shares they "own or control" with those definitions a lot more complicated than you think, as are the various attribution rules as to which family members and associated legal entities are presumed to be controlled by the reporting person. The Mann Living Trust, for example, is nominally a managing member of The Mann Group LLC although the percentage vote they have is tiny, but that is enough to require them to report shares owned by the trust and the shares they are presumed to control as managing member. If the trust ceased to be a managing member of the LLC, they would just have to report the shares they own, but shares in the LLC as they would no longer be in control. If you don't understand how to unravel the web of reporting, it would look as though the trust had divested those shares, but in fact they simply ceased to have a control interest. The Living Trust may also have a beneficial interest in the LLC, but that is again something different that would further confuse the reporting. The SEC reporting requirements are something only a securities lawyer could love. Your best bet is to read the latest DEF 14A and read the footnotes to the capitalization table carefully. That will help you figure out the double counts and who really owns how many shares.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 11:48:38 GMT -5
I think if the AM Foundation bought that many shares on the open market a lot of shorts would have covered. 1. Al Mann was no fan of the shorts. 2. Al Mann always had a plan. 3. If Al Mann did not want the shorts to know, he could have planned it that way for others to follow. 4. Not saying any of this is so, but it could be. While the shorts have done well on paper, they were never the smartest in the room, not even close, just the most self-serving and exploitive. I have thought of many ways to cause them severe pain simply through financial engineering IF already a billionaire... Again, probably not a concern for Al at the time, but if it was me, problem solved. 1) Agreed 2) The plan to date has not worked out well, and surely since he has passed, its no longer his plan. 3) Pretty imaginative speculation 4) Disagree. This company never had any business being worth what it was post approval. Which is why it was shorted.
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Post by mnkdfann on May 24, 2017 13:53:07 GMT -5
I think if the AM Foundation bought that many shares on the open market a lot of shorts would have covered. 1. Al Mann was no fan of the shorts. 2. Al Mann always had a plan. 3. If Al Mann did not want the shorts to know, he could have planned it that way for others to follow. 4. Not saying any of this is so, but it could be etc. ... The way you describe this (possible) planning on the part of Al Mann, makes me think of Willi Wonka and his plans for succession!
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Post by Jstokcton on May 24, 2017 14:13:54 GMT -5
Sold EYES to buy MNKD?
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Post by kbrion77 on May 24, 2017 14:20:39 GMT -5
I think if the AM Foundation bought that many shares on the open market a lot of shorts would have covered. 1. Al Mann was no fan of the shorts. 2. Al Mann always had a plan. 3. If Al Mann did not want the shorts to know, he could have planned it that way for others to follow. 4. Not saying any of this is so, but it could be. While the shorts have done well on paper, they were never the smartest in the room, not even close, just the most self-serving and exploitive. I have thought of many ways to cause them severe pain simply through financial engineering IF already a billionaire... Again, probably not a concern for Al at the time, but if it was me, problem solved. I'm a big fan of Mann and yes he was basically a genius but the continuous comments of these saying Al was always a step ahead should stop. Al and Co. bet the house that Sanofi would turn it into a blockbuster and it backfired and here we are, scraping by one day at a time.
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Post by mango on May 24, 2017 15:23:27 GMT -5
1. Al Mann was no fan of the shorts. 2. Al Mann always had a plan. 3. If Al Mann did not want the shorts to know, he could have planned it that way for others to follow. 4. Not saying any of this is so, but it could be. While the shorts have done well on paper, they were never the smartest in the room, not even close, just the most self-serving and exploitive. I have thought of many ways to cause them severe pain simply through financial engineering IF already a billionaire... Again, probably not a concern for Al at the time, but if it was me, problem solved. I'm a big fan of Mann and yes he was basically a genius but the continuous comments of these saying Al was always a step ahead should stop. Al and Co. bet the house that Sanofi would turn it into a blockbuster and it backfired and here we are, scraping by one day at a time. I actually have thought, on more than one occasion, that Sanofi was also part of the plan. Sanofi is corrupt like the rest of them. Nearly every BP company out there is getting nailed left and right everyday by the FDA, SEC, etc. MannKind has never received a warning letter from the FDA nor have they ever been charged by the DoJ. They also have the safest diabetes medication in the world, which is evidenced by the reported Adverse Events Outcomes. Even Metformin is the Primary Suspect in thousands of Deaths every year. Al and Kent Kresa have had close ties with in-the-know government and military people for decades, including foreign governments and military. Al was a visionary like no other. I think a lot of what is going on today he forsought and planned accordingly. No plan is perfect, but things are looking rather nice at the moment for MannKind. Al's priorities were the people, the patients, the unmet needs.
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Post by sportsrancho on May 24, 2017 15:30:45 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of Mann and yes he was basically a genius but the continuous comments of these saying Al was always a step ahead should stop. Al and Co. bet the house that Sanofi would turn it into a blockbuster and it backfired and here we are, scraping by one day at a time. I actually have thought, on more than one occasion, that Sanofi was also part of the plan. Sanofi is corrupt like the rest of them. Nearly every BP company out there is getting nailed left and right everyday by the FDA, SEC, etc. MannKind has never received a warning letter from the FDA nor have they ever been charged by the DoJ. They also have the safest diabetes medication in the world, which is evidenced by the reported Adverse Events Outcomes. Even Metformin is the Primary Suspect in thousands of Deaths every year. Al and Kent Kresa have had close ties with in-the-know government and military people for decades, including foreign governments and military. Al was a visionary like no other. I think a lot of what is going on today he forsought and planned accordingly. No plan is perfect, but things are looking rather nice at the moment for MannKind. Al's priorities were the people, the patients, the unmet needs. Right on! On all accounts! Matt will carry out Al's plan with integrity. And Mike is so good at finding the key players to bring it all together:-)
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 15:50:51 GMT -5
I actually have thought, on more than one occasion, that Sanofi was also part of the plan. Sanofi is corrupt like the rest of them. Nearly every BP company out there is getting nailed left and right everyday by the FDA, SEC, etc. MannKind has never received a warning letter from the FDA nor have they ever been charged by the DoJ. They also have the safest diabetes medication in the world, which is evidenced by the reported Adverse Events Outcomes. Even Metformin is the Primary Suspect in thousands of Deaths every year. Al and Kent Kresa have had close ties with in-the-know government and military people for decades, including foreign governments and military. Al was a visionary like no other. I think a lot of what is going on today he forsought and planned accordingly. No plan is perfect, but things are looking rather nice at the moment for MannKind. Al's priorities were the people, the patients, the unmet needs. Right on! On all accounts! Matt will carry out Al's plan with integrity. And Mike is so good at finding the key players to bring it all together:-) I had heard rumors that SNY was going to buy MNKD. I was told Al's asking price was too high and that shitty prove it deal was put in place.
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Post by peppy on May 24, 2017 16:02:17 GMT -5
This is exactly the number that VIVIP75 shows on his screenshot. However, the form 3 filing that is going around does not include some of those entities. Could the trust still control them, but not have to report them because of the structure? Yes, I think that is the case. This was discussed in another thread and I took the time to reconcile the numbers, but I decline to do it again because it is a lot of work. The way SEC reporting works, an entity must report shares they "own or control" with those definitions a lot more complicated than you think, as are the various attribution rules as to which family members and associated legal entities are presumed to be controlled by the reporting person. The Mann Living Trust, for example, is nominally a managing member of The Mann Group LLC although the percentage vote they have is tiny, but that is enough to require them to report shares owned by the trust and the shares they are presumed to control as managing member. If the trust ceased to be a managing member of the LLC, they would just have to report the shares they own, but shares in the LLC as they would no longer be in control. If you don't understand how to unravel the web of reporting, it would look as though the trust had divested those shares, but in fact they simply ceased to have a control interest. The Living Trust may also have a beneficial interest in the LLC, but that is again something different that would further confuse the reporting. The SEC reporting requirements are something only a securities lawyer could love. Your best bet is to read the latest DEF 14A and read the footnotes to the capitalization table carefully. That will help you figure out the double counts and who really owns how many shares.
www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/899460/000119312517039440/d338856ddef14a.htm
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Post by liane on May 24, 2017 16:13:55 GMT -5
Look guys - any more politics and I will start putting people on "vacation"!!!
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Post by slugworth008 on May 24, 2017 16:26:01 GMT -5
Look guys - any more politics and I will start putting people on "vacation"!!! That would be YUGE!!!
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Post by mnholdem on May 24, 2017 16:46:41 GMT -5
liane, that's what you call a wee bit of push-back.
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Post by n8 on May 24, 2017 17:11:06 GMT -5
And boom goes the dynamite....HA
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Post by kc on May 24, 2017 18:06:24 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of Mann and yes he was basically a genius but the continuous comments of these saying Al was always a step ahead should stop. Al and Co. bet the house that Sanofi would turn it into a blockbuster and it backfired and here we are, scraping by one day at a time. I actually have thought, on more than one occasion, that Sanofi was also part of the plan. Sanofi is corrupt like the rest of them. Nearly every BP company out there is getting nailed left and right everyday by the FDA, SEC, etc. MannKind has never received a warning letter from the FDA nor have they ever been charged by the DoJ. They also have the safest diabetes medication in the world, which is evidenced by the reported Adverse Events Outcomes. Even Metformin is the Primary Suspect in thousands of Deaths every year. Al and Kent Kresa have had close ties with in-the-know government and military people for decades, including foreign governments and military. Al was a visionary like no other. I think a lot of what is going on today he forsought and planned accordingly. No plan is perfect, but things are looking rather nice at the moment for MannKind. Al's priorities were the people, the patients, the unmet needs. Mango: I have to vehemently disagree with your message. We are in a bad situation almost falling into the abyss. I hope we survive but you can't say that this was very well planned out. Your comment or characterization reminds me of this song : Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be).
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Post by kc on May 24, 2017 18:08:45 GMT -5
Right on! On all accounts! Matt will carry out Al's plan with integrity. And Mike is so good at finding the key players to bring it all together:-) I had heard rumors that SNY was going to buy MNKD. I was told Al's asking price was too high and that shitty prove it deal was put in place. They should've sold 10 or 15% of the shares to Sanofi so they had skin in the game like Sanofi had with Regeneron. Hindsight is 2020 we have to look forward now rather than backwards.
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