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Post by mytakeonit on Jun 18, 2019 14:26:26 GMT -5
In my former life as operations manager ... I had the same problem with one of my distributors. He also wanted to take over the whole shebang on distribution and just "allow" us the manufacturing rights. My answer to it all was for him to do his sales and try to create the scenario that he was touting by himself. I created a discount chart where special pricing would occur at specific sales numbers. These distributors could purchase from us and we would do credit kick backs in the following month when we reviewed sales print outs. No returns of product could be done unless the product was defective in some way. (This eliminated distributors from buying a large amount at the end of the month only to return it ... or older inventory the next day)
It worked out well since everything was spelled out. No distributors were fighting each other because of the new deal and everyone was happy.
But, that's mytakeonit
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Post by ktim on Jun 18, 2019 14:39:48 GMT -5
I prefer not to click on any of SO's articles, but if he makes some good points then can anybody summarize? And is there a good reason why MNKD should not at least have an open dialog with VDEX instead of just giving them the cold shoulder? The article is too long, and makes too many points, for me to want or even to try to summarise it. If someone else feels like doing so, of course they are welcome to go ahead and do so. But if you read someone else's summary, be aware that you are reading an interpretation of what SO said, and perhaps not what SO really said at all. Myself, I don't begrudge SO the 2 cents (or is it a nickel) he makes from a page view. He tends to raise enough valid points (that escape many others) to make it worthwhile, IMO. I'll take a stab at summarizing it. It is a poorly written rambling response/analysis of a poorly written rambling proposal. Maybe I should have expanded that into two pages, so I could continue the chain
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Post by od on Jun 18, 2019 14:46:44 GMT -5
CVS Clinics/any retail-based clinic allow patients to fill prescriptions at the pharmacy of their choice; by law, they cannot steer prescriptions to their 'host' store's pharmacy. Assuming you are correct, VDex may be able to offer the cheapest price, right? I don't know that it is possible for MNKD and Vdex to enter an agreement that sets a floor price-to-patient. Matt likely has more pricing intelligence/experience. What is a bit confusing to me is how much less will/can the price-to-patient be with the proposed arrangement?
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Post by letitride on Jun 18, 2019 15:21:49 GMT -5
Im having a hard time understanding why MC would do business with someone who just trash talked him and his orginazation.
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Post by brotherm1 on Jun 18, 2019 15:50:48 GMT -5
It’s the shareholder’s organization
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Post by nylefty on Jun 18, 2019 16:27:59 GMT -5
Assuming you are correct, VDex may be able to offer the cheapest price, right? I don't know that it is possible for MNKD and Vdex to enter an agreement that sets a floor price-to-patient. Matt likely has more pricing intelligence/experience. What is a bit confusing to me is how much less will/can the price-to-patient be with the proposed arrangement? Vdex could charge patients whatever price it wanted, but as I've pointed out before it can't sell meaningful amounts of Afrezza to its patients in many states unless it has pharmacy licenses in those states. It might be able to set up its own mail order pharmacy, but that pharmacy would still have to be licensed in every state where it does business. Here's an explanation of what would be involved: www.licenselogix.com/internet-and-mail-order-pharmacy-license And what about insurance? If I got a prescription for Afrezza from Vdex and wanted to take advantage of my insurance plan I could only get the script filled at a CVS pharmacy (or certain other pharmacies that have deals with the insurance company) or by mail from OptumRx. I could not get it filled at Vdex or any mail order pharmacy it set up. Theoretically Vdex could make deals with all the insurance companies, but that's obviously an impractical idea. That said, I'd like to see some sort of deal with VDex if all the details could be worked out.
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Post by sweedee79 on Jun 19, 2019 14:29:07 GMT -5
VDEX needs to focus 100% of their efforts effectively running their practice and prescribing the shit out of AFREZZA. If they find great success with that everything will work out great for them. What some fail to understand is from what I believe.. is that Vdex has investors willing to back them with a lot of money, but need a moat to protect the business and the investment. Without these protections Vdex won't get the money and the deal is gone.. with the money Vdex can expand rapidly,.. Docs in mainstream medicine either don't know about Afrezza, or don't know how to prescribe it .. or are snubbing it.. FDA restrictions and OUR lack of money make it very difficult to teach mainstream medicine..or get it prescribed appropriately.. Also big time commercials cost a lot. . We can't pay off insurance companies the way BP does.. and honestly I don't believe that now after all of this time that we are going to see partner with deep pockets for Afrezza..
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Post by sportsrancho on Jun 19, 2019 15:41:22 GMT -5
Agree, and if even if we do get a co-partner down the road this is the best thing for MNKD shareholders.
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Post by mytakeonit on Jun 19, 2019 15:51:14 GMT -5
Don't think we will need a co-partner if we already have 2000 consistent prescribers, and we are working with UT on the technosphere platform, and Brazil is sending us a container load of dancers to pay for the Afrezza container. The pace will be picking up next quarter and everyone will be happy. Ka Ching !!!
But, that's mytakeonit
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Post by od on Jun 20, 2019 17:31:07 GMT -5
Assuming you are correct, VDex may be able to offer the cheapest price, right? I don't know that it is possible for MNKD and Vdex to enter an agreement that sets a floor price-to-patient. Matt likely has more pricing intelligence/experience. What is a bit confusing to me is how much less will/can the price-to-patient be with the proposed arrangement? Re: my Matt comment - "Matt likely has more pricing intelligence/experience." -- mnkd.proboards.com/post/181656
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Post by agedhippie on Jun 20, 2019 19:09:20 GMT -5
Don't think we will need a co-partner if we already have 2000 consistent prescribers, and we are working with UT on the technosphere platform, and Brazil is sending us a container load of dancers to pay for the Afrezza container. The pace will be picking up next quarter and everyone will be happy. Ka Ching !!! But, that's mytakeonit I wonder what the definition of a "consistent" prescriber is. Is it someone who prescribes more than once, twice, annually? Without the metric that's a meaningless measure. If we look at the number of new prescription last week (332) and divide that by the 2000 prescribers we get to one new prescription being written every six weeks. That is the absolute best case because it does not strip out the renewals and any prescriptions written by doctors other than the 2000 consistent providers. Nor does it account for the few high volume prescribers like, presumably, VDEX. In the end you are probably looking at something below one new prescription every two months for the balance of the consistent prescribers. Safe to say - the current sales strategy is not good.
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johny
Researcher
Posts: 87
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Post by johny on Jun 20, 2019 19:57:30 GMT -5
You want something from someone, you ask them privately. This guys airing dirty laundry, applying pressure, AND making demands.
"this is a great deal, and its surprising we havnt heard anything back from MNKD."
Vdex says their making these videos for the shareholders, because we have a right to know.. I don't think that's a good reason. Before these videos I had a hunch that Vdex had a good relationship with MNKD, however, now I realize, they don't.
I don't think Vdex should be asking for such exclusivity. Their basically saying we want our businesses to make NET money. They shouldn't be worried about cornering the Afrezza market. They be focused on opening as many clinics as possible while making Afrezza afforable. I imagine Vdex is heavily invested in MNKD. It appears now that they want to make money at both ends, through clinics and stock.
Mike is very approachable, there's no need for this publicity.
Vdex tried to use shareholders as leverage over MNKD. Bad move.
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Post by mnkdfann on Jun 20, 2019 21:17:27 GMT -5
Considering that links to the VDEX videos are posted here, on Twitter, on ST, and who knows where else, they have remarkably few views (IMO).
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Post by prcgorman2 on Jun 20, 2019 21:54:29 GMT -5
Agree, and if even if we do get a co-partner down the road this is the best thing for MNKD shareholders. Again, I always want to be able to agree with you Sports, but, on what basis is this “the best thing for MNKD shareholders”? Sweedee79’s post about investors and a moat are the reasons why the deal is good for VDEX. And, we can all agree that VDEX success does equate to value to Mannkind and MNKD shareholders, but given the risks that need to be addressed by attorneys and negotiated, and given other potential opportunities, why is this deal “the best thing for MNKD shareholders”? In my corporate finance classes we spent considerable time studying how to evaluate opportunities competing for budget decisions. Return on Invested Capital (ROIC), and Internal Rate of Return (IRR), are different methods of comparing value and to some degree bake in trade-offs of short-term versus long-term gains and the costs of capital for finance and operations. Mike C’s got an MBA from Wharton. I assume he’s aware of all of this and can be trusted to be effective in his role on providing leadership regarding evaluating competing opportunities. Bill may not have an MBA from Wharton, but he has business acumen and I assume he gets this too. I’m lecturing a little, so I apologize, but when I read a statement like “best thing” from a person I respect (you), I still want to see the facts and information, or even just speculation and opinions, that help back up that assertion.
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Post by sportsrancho on Jun 20, 2019 22:01:12 GMT -5
Then read Spencer’s articles because he is a lot better with money and numbers that I am. We’re running out of time, we’re running out of money, the stock is circling the drain we won’t be able to get financing ...if we had more reps on the ground 75% of MNKD shareholders believe that would be a better way to go. I’m good with percentages and I also am in touch and know what a lot of the shareholders are thinking. Is it gut instinct yes, is it EQ yes :-) I really don’t know why you keep saying you don’t want to argue but you keep arguing. I know what you think, you know what I think, everybody knows what we think;-)
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