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Post by sportsrancho on Jun 18, 2019 12:19:22 GMT -5
cretin11 - if I was Mike, I wouldn't spend two minutes on what VDEX "provided" last Friday and over the weekend. I'm not sure I would even call legal counsel for review (although emotions aside, it would be a good move to do so). My guess is the reason VDEX went with their public (and somewhat amateurish) approach is because they had zero traction with a private amateur approach to business partnering. I've met my share of successful people and entrepreneurs and they often have large egos (that to be fair, in some respects they've earned) and can come off as boorish or worse, used car salesman-like. I think VDEX has earned the right to negotiate in good faith an agreement which benefits both companies. I don't think what's been proposed is acceptable after review by folks on the board who at least appear to be offering informed and honest opinions. My assumption is the same conclusion is shared by MC and the MNKD Board. I 100% agree with Matt and to put it a different way, if at first you don't succeed, try again. VDEX almost certainly has to have some idea which parts of the proposal are undesirable or unacceptable to MNKD. Change them, drop them, add new things. We all get it that VDEX has helped sell Afrezza and is a big supporter of what Afrezza does to help with controlling blood glucose time in range. There is no argument. VDEX wants better pricing? Of course they do! They're a business. Does Mannkind want VDEX to be successful so that VDEX sells more Afrezza? Of course they do! They're a business. They have a common interest. WE all get it. VDEX wants something MNKD has. VDEX needs to put a price on it and negotiate. And my preference would be privately. The result should be something we as shareholders can agree was good for our interests and that we're happy was good for VDEX's interests too even though we only care tangentially about VDEX which is a privately-held firm. The Mannkind board has not seen the proposal because Mike hasn’t showed it or any of them to them. Read the letter, watch the video.
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Post by mnkdfann on Jun 18, 2019 12:21:30 GMT -5
I prefer not to click on any of SO's articles, but if he makes some good points then can anybody summarize? And is there a good reason why MNKD should not at least have an open dialog with VDEX instead of just giving them the cold shoulder? The article is too long, and makes too many points, for me to want or even to try to summarise it. If someone else feels like doing so, of course they are welcome to go ahead and do so. But if you read someone else's summary, be aware that you are reading an interpretation of what SO said, and perhaps not what SO really said at all. Myself, I don't begrudge SO the 2 cents (or is it a nickel) he makes from a page view. He tends to raise enough valid points (that escape many others) to make it worthwhile, IMO.SO's latest article was actually a blog post, not a regular contributed article. SO added a comment: "Had a question about what I get paid for this blog post. The answer is $0.00. SA blog posts generate no dollars for me whatsoever." So anyone can read his latest blog article / post without fear of lining his pocket. seekingalpha.com/instablog/175233-spencer-osborne/5316857-mannkind-vdex-diabetes
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Post by sportsrancho on Jun 18, 2019 12:23:46 GMT -5
No, there is no reason to approach VDEX. VDEX is a "parasite" that lives solely by Afrezza VDEX can not care less about how the stock price is, as long as Afrezza is expelled Vdex can buy or sell shares at any time -but don't cry in case of losses! Nobody prevents VDEX in 20 or 30 or 40 or 52 states to open clinics. Please hurry! If VDEX has so much capital they can buy a bigger share package Why should Mannkind give exclusive rights? Naked nonsense! → The stock price would collapse dramatically If Mannkind sends out a positive signal to VDEX, it would be equivalent to a capitulation of the BOD → The stock price collapses again -------------------------------------------
Gladfully this nonsense has an end very soon. Glad that VDEX did not terminate until July or even August
Did you write that yourself? If I remember right you’re the one that got my option trades all mixed up also so I wouldn’t give it much credence.
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Post by kimi on Jun 18, 2019 12:26:38 GMT -5
Nein, es gibt keinen Grund auf VDEX zuzugehen. VDEX ist ein Parasit der einzig und allein von Afrezza lebt VDEX kann es doch völlig egal sein wie der Aktienpreis ist, solange Afrezza vertrieben wird Vdex kann jederzeit Aktien kaufen oder verkaufen Niemand hindert VDEX in 20 oder 30 oder 40 oder 52 Staaten Kliniken zu eröffnen. Bitte nur zu! Wenn VDEX soviel Kapital hat können sie doch ein größeres Aktienpaket kaufen Warum sollte Mannkind exklusive Rechte vergeben? Blanker Unsinn! → Der Aktienkurs würde dramatisch einbrechen Sollte Mannkind ein positives Signal an VDEX aussenden, käme es einer Kapitulation des BOD gleich → Der Aktienkurs bricht wiederum ein
Greetings from Germany I don't know about your option trades
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Post by sportsrancho on Jun 18, 2019 12:32:07 GMT -5
The article is too long, and makes too many points, for me to want or even to try to summarise it. If someone else feels like doing so, of course they are welcome to go ahead and do so. But if you read someone else's summary, be aware that you are reading an interpretation of what SO said, and perhaps not what SO really said at all. Myself, I don't begrudge SO the 2 cents (or is it a nickel) he makes from a page view. He tends to raise enough valid points (that escape many others) to make it worthwhile, IMO.SO's latest article was actually a blog post, not a regular contributed article. SO added a comment: "Had a question about what I get paid for this blog post. The answer is $0.00. SA blog posts generate no dollars for me whatsoever." So anyone can read his latest blog article / post without fear of lining his pocket. seekingalpha.com/instablog/175233-spencer-osborne/5316857-mannkind-vdex-diabetes I read it early this morning, he’s got the foreign market thing kind of upside down. I don’t even wanna try to explain it.
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Post by afrezzamiracle on Jun 18, 2019 12:34:29 GMT -5
VDEX needs to focus 100% of their efforts effectively running their practice and prescribing the shit out of AFREZZA. If they find great success with that everything will work out great for them.
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Post by mnkdfann on Jun 18, 2019 12:41:53 GMT -5
I read it early this morning, he’s got the foreign market thing kind of upside down. I don’t even wanna try to explain it. Well, I'm not sure what part you are talking about, but at least partially it may be I disagree with you. If H(ot)FM was allowed to do the foreign deals and distributed in those 20 countries it asked about, that would affect Mannkind's ability to award exclusive distributorship rights to someone else (e.g. a bigger, better funded, better connected player) in the future. (E.g., the Australia and India deals - and maybe Brazil as well, IDR - are Exclusive Distribution Agreements.) So I agree with SO on that.
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Post by sportsrancho on Jun 18, 2019 12:45:07 GMT -5
Yeah better to let Bill explain it.
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Post by rtmd on Jun 18, 2019 13:11:43 GMT -5
I would have more faith in the offer if it said something about some cash up front. Say, for example, he offered to buy 20 million shares at $1.25 in exchange for the things being requested or if they offered to buy 10 million dollars worth of afrezza up front in exchange.
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Post by cedafuntennis on Jun 18, 2019 13:34:42 GMT -5
Disagree. They need to focus on retention 90%. The rest 10% they can play with marketing some more. At least until they get a handle on retention problems which are killing us.
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Post by prcgorman2 on Jun 18, 2019 13:46:49 GMT -5
cretin11 - if I was Mike, I wouldn't spend two minutes on what VDEX "provided" last Friday and over the weekend. I'm not sure I would even call legal counsel for review (although emotions aside, it would be a good move to do so). My guess is the reason VDEX went with their public (and somewhat amateurish) approach is because they had zero traction with a private amateur approach to business partnering. I've met my share of successful people and entrepreneurs and they often have large egos (that to be fair, in some respects they've earned) and can come off as boorish or worse, used car salesman-like. I think VDEX has earned the right to negotiate in good faith an agreement which benefits both companies. I don't think what's been proposed is acceptable after review by folks on the board who at least appear to be offering informed and honest opinions. My assumption is the same conclusion is shared by MC and the MNKD Board. I 100% agree with Matt and to put it a different way, if at first you don't succeed, try again. VDEX almost certainly has to have some idea which parts of the proposal are undesirable or unacceptable to MNKD. Change them, drop them, add new things. We all get it that VDEX has helped sell Afrezza and is a big supporter of what Afrezza does to help with controlling blood glucose time in range. There is no argument. VDEX wants better pricing? Of course they do! They're a business. Does Mannkind want VDEX to be successful so that VDEX sells more Afrezza? Of course they do! They're a business. They have a common interest. WE all get it. VDEX wants something MNKD has. VDEX needs to put a price on it and negotiate. And my preference would be privately. The result should be something we as shareholders can agree was good for our interests and that we're happy was good for VDEX's interests too even though we only care tangentially about VDEX which is a privately-held firm. The Mannkind board has not seen the proposal because Mike hasn’t showed it or any of them to them. Read the letter, watch the video. sports- I'm not adversarial (to you) as you know, but how can you be sure the Board isn't aware of VDEX's advances or their open letter or the video? We have management because we cannot be CEO by committee (although we all like to play Monday-morning CEO on this board). So, no matter how uncomfortable we may be with how management is handling business inputs, we have to have a certain amount of faith in their abilities and intentions which is then supported (or eroded) based on their results. I'd say Mike's results are good. We're regularly out-selling what Sanofi did and with a much smaller budget and workforce and there is a clearly observable upward trend in the weekly Rx prescriptions and sales and there can be no question that Dr. Castagna is a prime reason for this success, such as it is. Dr. Castagna has been successful at preventing bankruptcy, and launching a direct marketing effort, and the sales revenue chart shows this, and the earnings report show we're still in the red. We started there and the situation has improved and the only discussion is whether it's fast enough to keep pace with operational and debt obligations. We know the answer there too and so we anticipate dilution and more debt. This is not appealing but it beats the living daylights out of receivership. And while we anticipate debt and dilution, it is not yet a foregone conclusion because we don't know what all management has been doing although I often see posts from people who since they don't know, assume it's little or nothing, which is disingenuous. I don't know what "Bill's" background is (other than the hair implant business) but Dr. Castagna worked his way up in the pharma business while also earning a Master's in Business from Wharton and a Doctor of Pharma from Massachusetts's College of Pharmacy. It may be fair to say both CEO's have a background in patient care, but I'm glad Bill is CEO of VDEX and Mike is CEO of Mannkind. I trust Mike. And I sympathize with Bill, but his approach has been unconventional at the very least and I'm not easily persuaded that it was necessary.
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Post by robbmo on Jun 18, 2019 13:49:11 GMT -5
Everyone should read this even if you are opposed to reading SO articles. Too many here are not considering the negative aspects of the Vdex proposal. I must say that I do not always agree with SO, but he is spot on in this article...
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Post by mytakeonit on Jun 18, 2019 13:49:59 GMT -5
I think everyone should read this article ... finally I agree to SO. He's saying exactly what I have been saying and believe. But, that's mytakeonit
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Post by kimi on Jun 18, 2019 13:58:44 GMT -5
Excellent - prcgorman2 !!
but : And I sympathize with Bill
that's not working for me - IMO Bill follows a very toxic agenda
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Post by tingtongtung on Jun 18, 2019 14:02:54 GMT -5
I could be wrong. But this is just my honest opinion.
Vdex has no IP. Their entire IP is Afrezza/MNKD. So, they can't blackmail MNKD. Anyone who has enough time can do what Vdex has done at a smaller scale. Even Vdex can only do this at a small scale. I don't think their model can scale well. Vdex cannot stop other copycat Vdexes (vdeces??) from popping up and stealing their business.
MNKD cannot agree with what Vdex is asking (as it has done with Deerfield, etc). MNKD can always give Vdex a substantial discount (no idea how it works - volume discount?). Any new Vdex type shops can cut a similar deal with MNKD later on independent of Vdex. That would be fair for us (normal share holders), for MNKD, and for Vdex.
Again, I'm not saying MNKD is doing a good job selling. They are making some money. It can be said that, Vdex hasn't made any big impact as well. So, why MNKD should limit itself with this deal? They already have 3 deals (Brazil, India, Aus) that has nothing for them.
They should deal with insurance here, clean up the message to the patients, make money and then sign the deals from a position of strength (stealing from MattP :-) )
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