Brazil

[uvula]

I'm sure BIOMM has looked at the numbers more carefully than we have and they think they can make money with Afrezza. This doesn't necessarily mean mnkd will make a profit on Brazil.

[cretin11]

Sept 30, 2019 9:28:13 GMT -5 @chuckbass said:

Sept 30, 2019 8:11:39 GMT -5 awesomo said:

We also have no idea what the revenue share between MannKind and Biomm is. So even if sales do well, we may not see much benefit other than lower COGS.

I think you mean improved margins and not lower COGS. 

I think awesomo is right, lower COGS should be a result, correct? Which should hopefully lead to improved margins but not necessarily (depends on pricing in Brazil and the rev split).

[mnkdfann]

Sept 30, 2019 17:35:50 GMT -5 uvula said:

I'm sure BIOMM has looked at the numbers more carefully than we have and they think they can make money with Afrezza. This doesn't necessarily mean mnkd will make a profit on Brazil.

When they signed the agreement 2 years ago, presumably they did. Would they think the same today? I dunno. See Matt's post prior about their execution with a different drug. Presumably they expected much better than $10+ million in losses from that one.

I'm hoping for a miracle, but I'm feeling pessimistic.

[bones1026]

Sept 30, 2019 17:55:00 GMT -5 mnkdfann said:

Sept 30, 2019 17:35:50 GMT -5 uvula said:

I'm sure BIOMM has looked at the numbers more carefully than we have and they think they can make money with Afrezza. This doesn't necessarily mean mnkd will make a profit on Brazil.

When they signed the agreement 2 years ago, presumably they did. Would they think the same today? I dunno. See Matt's post prior about their execution with a different drug. Presumably they expected much better than $10+ million in losses from that one.

I'm hoping for a miracle, but I'm feeling pessimistic.

YOU are feeling pessimistic??? And here all this time I always referred to you as Mr Positivity...you even have the profile name that MUST mean you’re a huge Mannkind advocate..

[mnkdfann]

Sept 30, 2019 18:14:11 GMT -5 bones1026 said:

Sept 30, 2019 17:55:00 GMT -5 mnkdfann said:

When they signed the agreement 2 years ago, presumably they did. Would they think the same today? I dunno. See Matt's post prior about their execution with a different drug. Presumably they expected much better than $10+ million in losses from that one.

I'm hoping for a miracle, but I'm feeling pessimistic.

YOU are feeling pessimistic??? And here all this time I always referred to you as Mr Positivity...you even have the profile name that MUST mean you’re a huge Mannkind advocate..

Well, I've been here a lot longer than you have. See how you feel in another year and a half, two years.

[babaoriley]

People can guess all they want on how Afrezza does in Brazil, and based on the track record of the vast majority of us, I would put no store in any consensus reached on this board.

[longliner]

Oct 1, 2019 0:20:33 GMT -5 babaoriley said:

People can guess all they want on how Afrezza does in Brazil, and based on the track record of the vast majority of us, I would put no store in any consensus reached on this board.

Fight on

[matt]

FYI, the updated pricing matrix for October was posted by CMED site last evening. There is still no listing for Afrezza, Mannkind, or Biomm (other than their biosimilar glargine insulin product). The next update is due November 1 and it usually takes an extra day or two to get posted so expect the data around Monday, November 4.

[mnholdem]

WTF!

[mytakeonit]

Interesting that anyone thought that they would be selling Afrezza while it was still in the container. Also, all interested parties will have to do their own tests to get it moving once it's on the streets. Then, you can cut a hole in the side of the container and sell it like it's a food truck.

But, that's mytakeonit

[matt]

Oct 3, 2019 11:27:06 GMT -5 mnholdem said:

WTF!

Yeah, I was surprised not to find it in this month's spreadsheet as well.  The ANVISA site suggests that there are other sources for the data, but it is not clear to me what those are and in any event I don't have access to them.  Biomm may be in negotiations with CMED trying to get a better price, or there may be some administrative delay that we are not aware of.  Delays are fairly common in Brazil; things don't work down there the way we think they will work, but it gets done eventually.

[mnholdem]

Not to mention that the Big 3 insulin companies are doing business in Brazil and may be influential with the Brazilian regulatory authoritie$.

[mytakeonit]

Do you mean to pass or block Afrezza? Oooh ... that wouldn't be right.

But, that's mytakeonit

[falconquest]

Oct 3, 2019 15:52:42 GMT -5 mnholdem said:

Not to mention that the Big 3 insulin companies are doing business in Brazil and may be influential with the Brazilian regulatory authoritie$.

Noooo, now that wouldn't happen would it?

[matt]

Oct 3, 2019 15:52:42 GMT -5 mnholdem said:

Not to mention that the Big 3 insulin companies are doing business in Brazil and may be influential with the Brazilian regulatory authoritie$.

Not so much.  If you look at the prices for all insulin products in Brazil, none of the traditional players is getting rich down there.  Recombinant insulin (Humulin R, Novolin R) have a maximum importer price of about $9 for a 10ml vial, which competes with the locally-manufactured product which is free.  Humalog and Novolog are about $19 per vial.  Meanwhile, Biomm was awarded a price for their locally produced Lantus biosimilar that is about 30% higher than the Sanofi price and the Biomm product does not attract the extra 16% PIS tax on imported drugs.  If the big three have any influence with the regulatory authorities, they are not using it very well.

I wrote up a summary of how pricing works in Brazil that I had planned to post along with the price for Afrezza, but I may post that today as it might clear up a few questions.  It also makes clear how ANVISA and CMED operate and who pulls their strings (hint: not foreign companies!).