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Post by peppy on Jan 23, 2023 16:51:17 GMT -5
Ron - what are your expectations from the additional manufacturing facility? " UT will have at least one other manufacturing facility." If I remember correctly the fill rate is 400 cartridges per minute which provides 24,000 per hour. Tyvaso DPI requires 4 cartridges per day per user or 52,000 per day for the 13,000 users. In theory the existing Danbury facility can provide all that is needed in 1/2 of the 1st shift. I think UTHR needs the facility for disaster recovery requirements. I believe sayhey24 is on the right track talking about cartridge fill rates. The dry powder is made in bulk batches, so manufacturing bulk material isn't the big problem, filling all those small cartridges is. So if you are thinking trade secret wise, keeping bulk powder manufacturing at Danbury makes sense and shipping the powder to finish fill lines somewhere else is fine. I think the original building had room for 12 lines(enough room for all USA AFrezza production) and only 2-3 were ever installed , and they have improved the fill rates over the years of the lines. The dry powder bulk batches need to be kept sterile and the cartridges sterile. This dry powder goes to the Alveoli. Sterility. |
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 23, 2023 18:20:49 GMT -5
I believe sayhey24 is on the right track talking about cartridge fill rates. The dry powder is made in bulk batches, so manufacturing bulk material isn't the big problem, filling all those small cartridges is. So if you are thinking trade secret wise, keeping bulk powder manufacturing at Danbury makes sense and shipping the powder to finish fill lines somewhere else is fine. I think the original building had room for 12 lines(enough room for all USA AFrezza production) and only 2-3 were ever installed , and they have improved the fill rates over the years of the lines. Mannkind is contractually obliged to help UTHR set up manufacturing of any part of the product at UTHR's request. The contract also allows UTHR to sub-license the manufacture of any part of the product (it also allows the sub-licensee to sub-license and so on). |
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 23, 2023 18:34:08 GMT -5
I believe sayhey24 is on the right track talking about cartridge fill rates. The dry powder is made in bulk batches, so manufacturing bulk material isn't the big problem, filling all those small cartridges is. So if you are thinking trade secret wise, keeping bulk powder manufacturing at Danbury makes sense and shipping the powder to finish fill lines somewhere else is fine. I think the original building had room for 12 lines(enough room for all USA AFrezza production) and only 2-3 were ever installed , and they have improved the fill rates over the years of the lines. Mannkind is contractually obliged to help UTHR set up manufacturing of any part of the product at UTHR's request. The contract also allows UTHR to sub-license the manufacture of any part of the product (it also allows the sub-licensee to sub-license and so on). I am sure UTHR is also obligated to have a disaster recovery site. It was pointed out to me that Mike listed on his revenue slide "collaboration" as a revenue source. I think everyone fully expects the MNKD engineers to help UTHR set up the site. I see it nothing more than a disaster recovery site where they clear out the cobwebs a few times a year. However, MNKD is manufacturing at cost plus. Can Martine manufacture as cheap??? I don't know the plus up but I would guess 6%. If MNKD is doing a great job filling cartridges and Martine is selling the crap out of Tyvaso DPI, why would she ever risk screwing things up to save 6% if they can even produce as cheap as an experienced team who have years of DPI experience? |
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Post by longliner on Jan 23, 2023 18:42:40 GMT -5
Mannkind is contractually obliged to help UTHR set up manufacturing of any part of the product at UTHR's request. The contract also allows UTHR to sub-license the manufacture of any part of the product (it also allows the sub-licensee to sub-license and so on). I am sure UTHR is also obligated to have a disaster recovery site. It was pointed out to me that Mike listed on his revenue slide "collaboration" as a revenue source. I think everyone fully expects the MNKD engineers to help UTHR set up the site. I see it nothing more than a disaster recovery site where they clear out the cobwebs a few times a year.However, MNKD is manufacturing at cost plus. Can Martine manufacture as cheap??? I don't know the plus up but I would guess 6%. If MNKD is doing a great job filling cartridges and Martine is selling the crap out of Tyvaso DPI, why would she ever risk screwing things up to save 6% if they can even produce as cheap as an experienced team who have years of DPI experience? Somehow Martine doesn't strike me as the type of CEO that develops a manufacturing facility, then "cleans the cobwebs out of it" a few times a year. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 23, 2023 18:55:45 GMT -5
I am sure UTHR is also obligated to have a disaster recovery site. It was pointed out to me that Mike listed on his revenue slide "collaboration" as a revenue source. I think everyone fully expects the MNKD engineers to help UTHR set up the site. I see it nothing more than a disaster recovery site where they clear out the cobwebs a few times a year.However, MNKD is manufacturing at cost plus. Can Martine manufacture as cheap??? I don't know the plus up but I would guess 6%. If MNKD is doing a great job filling cartridges and Martine is selling the crap out of Tyvaso DPI, why would she ever risk screwing things up to save 6% if they can even produce as cheap as an experienced team who have years of DPI experience? Somehow Martine doesn't strike me as the type of CEO that develops a manufacturing facility, then "cleans the cobwebs out of it" a few times a year. Thats what you do with disaster recovery sites. You clear out the cobwebs a couple times a year to do a test. She does strike me as someone who does not want to create herself a headache to save a few pennies which then ends up costing more in the end. How many companies have moved or are moving to AWS and Azure because its worth paying a bit more so you don't have to staff your own IT datacenter staff when you are not in the IT business. Wall St lost their minds last quarter when Azure only grew 38%. Martine is not in the DPI business and IMO its not worth the headache to save a few pennies. BTW - Mike should be telling her everyday that MNKD can do it better. |
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Post by longliner on Jan 23, 2023 18:57:24 GMT -5
Somehow Martine doesn't strike me as the type of CEO that develops a manufacturing facility, then "cleans the cobwebs out of it" a few times a year. Thats what you do with disaster recovery sites. You clear out the cobwebs a couple times a year to do a test. She does strike me as someone who does not want to create herself a headache to save a few pennies which then ends up costing more in the end. How many companies have moved or are moving to AWS and Azure because its worth paying a bit more so you don't have to staff your own IT datacenter staff when you are not in the IT business. Wall St lost their minds last quarter when Azure only grew 38%. Martine is not in the DPI business and IMO its not worth the headache to save a few pennies. BTW - Mike should be telling her everyday that MNKD can do it better. The good part is, I guess we'll see. |
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 23, 2023 19:17:55 GMT -5
I am sure UTHR is also obligated to have a disaster recovery site. It was pointed out to me that Mike listed on his revenue slide "collaboration" as a revenue source. I think everyone fully expects the MNKD engineers to help UTHR set up the site. I see it nothing more than a disaster recovery site where they clear out the cobwebs a few times a year. However, MNKD is manufacturing at cost plus. Can Martine manufacture as cheap??? I don't know the plus up but I would guess 6%. If MNKD is doing a great job filling cartridges and Martine is selling the crap out of Tyvaso DPI, why would she ever risk screwing things up to save 6% if they can even produce as cheap as an experienced team who have years of DPI experience? Why on earth would UTHR spend the money to build a plant and then not use it. It's not like they can mothball it because then they would still have the ongoing costs of staff, certifications, supply chains, etc. It's far more likely that it would become the primary manufacturing site and UTHR could reclaim that cost plus element that they are currently leaving on the table as an additional benefit. As to support; MNKD are contractually obliged to provide that as part of the contract so that risk is minimal. This is before we get to UTHR being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers (they have the right to use their own suppliers in the contract). |
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 23, 2023 19:35:14 GMT -5
I am sure UTHR is also obligated to have a disaster recovery site. It was pointed out to me that Mike listed on his revenue slide "collaboration" as a revenue source. I think everyone fully expects the MNKD engineers to help UTHR set up the site. I see it nothing more than a disaster recovery site where they clear out the cobwebs a few times a year. However, MNKD is manufacturing at cost plus. Can Martine manufacture as cheap??? I don't know the plus up but I would guess 6%. If MNKD is doing a great job filling cartridges and Martine is selling the crap out of Tyvaso DPI, why would she ever risk screwing things up to save 6% if they can even produce as cheap as an experienced team who have years of DPI experience? Why on earth would UTHR spend the money to build a plant and then not use it. It's not like they can mothball it because then they would still have the ongoing costs of staff, certifications, supply chains, etc. It's far more likely that it would become the primary manufacturing site and UTHR could reclaim that cost plus element that they are currently leaving on the table as an additional benefit. As to support; MNKD are contractually obliged to provide that as part of the contract so that risk is minimal. This is before we get to UTHR being able to negotiate better prices from suppliers (they have the right to use their own suppliers in the contract). They have to for disaster recovery. Thats just what you have to do. What happens if Danbury burns to the ground tomorrow? Would you like to be the CEO of UTHR then and can't get product which is now driving your company's sales growth??? You never staff these sites even part time. During the tests you put the MNKD production guys and engineers on a plane in a "Collaborative effort" and send them there for a week. They show the auditors they can make product and then mouth ball it for another 6 - 12 months. If you were just making standard stuff you would contract with multiple suppliers but there is only one TS manufacturing site in the world and it cost about $200M to build it. I would think the new site will be smaller and only a single filling line. If you know of another TS manufacturing site let us know. Maybe you can start with a google search. I am not sure they print the Yellow Pages anymore. |
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Post by jimbal on Jan 23, 2023 20:29:03 GMT -5
Could UTHR's new plant be for future inhalable pharmaceuticals....using MNKD's technosphere technology? Their first joint product seems to be doing quite well, seems quite logical that they would pursue a second, third, fourth, etc. joint partnership on inhalable drugs.
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Post by radgray68 on Jan 23, 2023 21:02:05 GMT -5
I think the new UTHR site is going to be the main production facility and Mannkind then becomes the emergency back-up. Either way our royalties are on net sales so if UTHR can increase the net, good on both of us.
UTHR is setting their sights on a much larger market than they have currently. Something like 10X, i believe.
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Post by letitride on Jan 23, 2023 21:05:59 GMT -5
Presuming afrezza continues a slow walk there is probably plenty of capacity in Danbury. But should Afrezza breakout this year extra lines may be needed if Martine helps to free them up all the better. No need to let a ready willing and able plant just sit there.
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Post by anderson on Jan 24, 2023 7:13:41 GMT -5
I am hoping by the time UTHR has its manufacturing site up MNKD has need of the Danbury site for their next products.
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Post by prcgorman2 on Jan 24, 2023 7:33:12 GMT -5
I am hoping by the time UTHR has its manufacturing site up MNKD has need of the Danbury site for their next products. Yup. UTHR’s new plant as backup or main doesn’t matter to me. What matters is getting more products through the pipeline and into production to be the masters of our own destiny. |
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Post by boca1girl on Jan 24, 2023 10:18:10 GMT -5
I thought the manufacturing commitment was increased from 5 to 10 years in the last contract change.
I think this is a risk management move but may also be used if MNKD can’t keep up with demand or if they will use this line for the “2nd” molecule with MNKD.
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Post by prcgorman2 on Jan 24, 2023 11:06:51 GMT -5
I thought the manufacturing commitment was increased from 5 to 10 years in the last contract change. I think this is a risk management move but may also be used if MNKD can’t keep up with demand or if they will use this line for the “2nd” molecule with MNKD. Agree that risk management has to be a part of the equation. The fire and injured worker at the Danbury plant last quarter surely was discussed in the UTHR boardroom.
I remember digging up information (might have been from this board) on the Mannkind disaster recovery and business continuity strategy. That was some years ago. I used to worry about it because of Danbury being a single point of failure. A big inventory on ice was the main approach to buying time needed to recover. I assume that hasn't changed. I was eager for Mannkind to need a 2nd facility both for capacity reasons and for DR/BC. The Sanofi perfidy and ensuing financial straits and Afrezza re-launch removed that from my mind as a primary concern.
Now that there is more money (and much of it UTHR's) riding on Danbury, it makes 100% sense to get another facility on-line. Even better if Mannkind licenses technology being used there, and doubly so if the UTHR facility can be used to provide a resource for MNKD's DR/BC needs or expanding production of MNKD products if needed temporarily (where "temporarily" = years).
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