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Post by batdoc31 on Sept 4, 2022 11:30:39 GMT -5
Been thinking about this recently and wanted to hear the boards thoughts….
If you were uthr would you even consider lqda buyout and transitioning away from MNkD? Never thought that it was an option but I’m concerned a major pharma could purchase lqda and directly compete? Wouldn’t it be easier for uthr to buy them and put away the competition? If they did would they dispose of MNkD relationship once they own lqda or are they too invested? Would fda approval have to start over? Maybe just starting to doubt because of all the negative out there and the attention and rise in price lqda keeps seeing.
Appreciate opinions 🙏🏻
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Post by akemp3000 on Sept 4, 2022 14:32:10 GMT -5
It's likely the agreement between Mannkind and UTHR has some form of non-compete clause that would prevent UTHR from transitioning away. IMO, there's no reason for UTHR to do anything more than what they're doing. They've already got a two-year head start and its possible this becomes five years. Big Pharma buying Liquidia wouldn't change the current patent infringement issue other than having more dollars to fight and why would a BP invest in that risk. There's also another undisclosed molecule that's been discussed between these two. I believe it would be more likely that UTHR would want to buy out MNKD or at least the pulmonary segment so they'll ultimately have total control which most BP's want.
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Post by mymann on Sept 4, 2022 15:07:44 GMT -5
I don't think I could handle another partner screwing mnkd again. UTHR is not SNY. The big statue UTHR erected in their lobby for Tyvaso DPI gives me some comfort that Tyvaso DPI is their pride and joy.
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Post by agedhippie on Sept 4, 2022 15:22:01 GMT -5
Been thinking about this recently and wanted to hear the boards thoughts…. If you were uthr would you even consider lqda buyout and transitioning away from MNkD? Never thought that it was an option but I’m concerned a major pharma could purchase lqda and directly compete? Wouldn’t it be easier for uthr to buy them and put away the competition? If they did would they dispose of MNkD relationship once they own lqda or are they too invested? Would fda approval have to start over? Maybe just starting to doubt because of all the negative out there and the attention and rise in price lqda keeps seeing. Appreciate opinions 🙏🏻 It's not going to happen. They would have to seek FDA approval from the new drug in the same way LQDA has had to for theirs. They reclaim the manufacturing at some point, but I think even that is unlikely. The only possible is that UTHR reclaims manufacturing, but Tyvaso is a high value/low volume product so without more molecules to boost volume they are better off leaving it with MNKD from that standpoint. |
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Post by Thundersnow on Sept 5, 2022 0:28:16 GMT -5
Been thinking about this recently and wanted to hear the boards thoughts…. If you were uthr would you even consider lqda buyout and transitioning away from MNkD? Never thought that it was an option but I’m concerned a major pharma could purchase lqda and directly compete? Wouldn’t it be easier for uthr to buy them and put away the competition? If they did would they dispose of MNkD relationship once they own lqda or are they too invested? Would fda approval have to start over? Maybe just starting to doubt because of all the negative out there and the attention and rise in price lqda keeps seeing. Appreciate opinions 🙏🏻 You raised a good theory but this is my 2 cents. UTHR had every opportunity to choose LQDA as a partner. In their Due Diligence they looked at LQDA, MNKD and probably TFF Pharma and CHOSE MNKD. I believe MNKD is safe for the long term and don't forget UTHR signed up for a 2nd molecule. They realize MNKD has a superior technology and both will be successful. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Sept 5, 2022 7:45:39 GMT -5
Been thinking about this recently and wanted to hear the boards thoughts…. If you were uthr would you even consider lqda buyout and transitioning away from MNkD? Never thought that it was an option but I’m concerned a major pharma could purchase lqda and directly compete? Wouldn’t it be easier for uthr to buy them and put away the competition? If they did would they dispose of MNkD relationship once they own lqda or are they too invested? Would fda approval have to start over? Maybe just starting to doubt because of all the negative out there and the attention and rise in price lqda keeps seeing. Appreciate opinions 🙏🏻 No - in addition to a good business relationship there is a personal relationship between Martine and MNKD. There was a very strong friendship with Al but now Mike has also been able to build a relationship. In one of Mike's recent podcasts he talks about Martine asking how she could help MNKD when it looked like the closed sign was going up on MNKD's door. At this point its UTHR's job to sell Tyvaso DPI. They have LQDA where they want them. They have a 2 year window to make the market and it looks like its a great product. MNKD's job is to make the product and to develop and start executing a plan for afrezza in the T2 market. Tyvaso DPI is never going to make MNKD rich. It will help pay some bills. Afrezza taking even 10% of the T2 market will make MNKD rich. The T1 market plan looks solid. Once afrezza gets approved for the kids MNKD should be able to build on the momentum which is already building with the T1s. |
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Post by markado on Sept 5, 2022 9:47:59 GMT -5
Agree with the dissenting opinions and for the reasons proposed. To these I would add something I read on this board a long time ago, that made me take notice. If what was written, then, was correct, LQDA's molecule is sugar based vs. Technosphere which is salt based. (Definitely simplifying, here, for myself.) There are questions to be answered with respect to consistent dosing of a sugar based molecule through lung tissue, and potential longer term impacts. The technologies may be similar to an extent, but the body's reaction to a sugar based molecule vs. salt may prove wildly different down the road. Think peripheral neuropathy and cellular damage due to prolonged high A1C, but focused on lung tissue and alveoli with a med that may have to be taken multiple times per day for life. Just more risk the add to the LQDA pile.
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Post by batdoc31 on Sept 5, 2022 10:20:07 GMT -5
Appreciate the responses and all good points. Just trying to think of what I might have been missing since the share price and price action in the two companies makes no sense.
On the afrezza sales strategy - they really need to improve the insurance coverage and ease. Physicians aren’t in bed with big pharma, they’re just overwhelmed and don’t want to write a script they know they’re going to have to jump through hoops to get filled. They’re just looking for the path of least resistance and right now afrezza is just very difficult to prescribe. The patients getting afrezza currently are educated, done tons of research and are passionate about using it! We need to move the insurance needle and that often becomes purely a cost issue.
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Post by anderson on Sept 6, 2022 8:50:29 GMT -5
batdoc31 I can see you are new here. We have been over this before and I would encourage you to read the License and Collaboration Agreement listed in the 10-Q linked below. What you need to know is that if UTHR bought LQDA it would need to be sanctioned by MNKD as an amendment to the License and collaboration agreement. If they didn't UTHR would be in breach of contract and MNKD would get Tyvaso-DPI and IP associated with it and could market it.(Yeah the agreement is pretty harsh if UTHR breachs, think they learned a thing or two from Sanofi contract) Check the 10-Q around the time of the deal.....most of the deal is in there except for royalty rates and other competitive secrets. 10-Q link investors.mannkindcorp.com/node/15916/htmlsearch for LICENSE AND COLLABORATION AGREEMENT Then down on page 14 of the license agreement 2.5 Exclusivity. (b)United Therapeutics. During the Term, neither United Therapeutics nor any of its Affiliates (subject to Section 15.10) shall develop, manufacture or commercialize, or authorize any Third Party to develop, manufacture or commercialize any product (other than Product) containing or comprising any dry powder formulation of API that is or is intended to be primarily administered in or through the lungs.
Section 15.10 deals with change of ownership....ie UTHR gets acquired.
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Post by batdoc31 on Sept 6, 2022 15:10:27 GMT -5
Not new here just don’t post very often. This is exactly what I was looking for!
Much appreciated 👌🏻
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Post by longliner on Jan 18, 2023 18:46:30 GMT -5
A portion of a new UTHR job opening today;
How you’ll contribute
The Principal Process Engineer (DPI) will provide process engineering expertise for new facility projects, with a core focus on Tyvaso DPI related projects. Responsibilities include serving as the project point person from conceptual plan, detailed design, and construction. Additional responsibilities include equipment/process feasibility assessments, throughput analysis, process specification, and constructability assessments.
Serve as the key project point person from conceptual plan to detailed design and construction for critical success of new DPI facility and future expansions (process & facilities)
Drive and support overall strategic planning, and achievement of goals for new facility
Lead tech transfer interactions required for starting up new commercial DPI facility
Participate in and present process and project plans to A&E firms to evolve concepts and construction documents
Participate and lead process interactions with CM firms for pricing and approval
Serve as Subject Matter Expert (SME) for bulk powder formulation and fill/pack facility
Responsible for review and approval of construction submittals and RFIs
Routinely interact with vendors/partners, Manufacturing, QA, QC, Facilities, Validation, and EHS personnel to achieve project and production goals
My note;
Several folks noticed even though Martine acknowledged Mike as the CEO of the Company that Mfgs. Tyvaso DPI at the JPM conference, she didn't say the company name. Why would she want any other name affiliated with a technology UTHR would soon exclusively own? JMHO
If memory serves me, I seem to recall Martine moving the testing in house following the Tyvaso snafu. She referenced preferring vertical integration in her company. I assume the same may apply to "the star of the show".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 19:02:41 GMT -5
How does this effect MNKD? If at all.
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 18, 2023 19:07:33 GMT -5
A portion of a new UTHR job opening; How you’ll contribute The Principal Process Engineer (DPI) will provide process engineering expertise for new facility projects, with a core focus on Tyvaso DPI related projects. Responsibilities include serving as the project point person from conceptual plan, detailed design, and construction. Additional responsibilities include equipment/process feasibility assessments, throughput analysis, process specification, and constructability assessments. ... My note; Several folks noticed even though Martine acknowledged Mike as the CEO of the Company that Mfgs. Tyvaso DPI at the JPM conference, she didn't say the company name. Why would she want any other name affiliated with a technology UTHR would soon exclusively own? JMHO Oddly I think it's good news for MNKD. Yes, the manufacturing revenue goes away, but there is no way UTHR would build their own manufacturing plant if DPI wasn't getting serious traction so there are the prospects for far greater royalties. I can't see them buying MNKD because in that case they would use or expand the existing facility. |
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Post by longliner on Jan 18, 2023 19:08:01 GMT -5
How does this effect MNKD? If at all. Uthr strategy is the thread. |
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Post by longliner on Jan 18, 2023 19:11:00 GMT -5
A portion of a new UTHR job opening; How you’ll contribute The Principal Process Engineer (DPI) will provide process engineering expertise for new facility projects, with a core focus on Tyvaso DPI related projects. Responsibilities include serving as the project point person from conceptual plan, detailed design, and construction. Additional responsibilities include equipment/process feasibility assessments, throughput analysis, process specification, and constructability assessments. ... My note; Several folks noticed even though Martine acknowledged Mike as the CEO of the Company that Mfgs. Tyvaso DPI at the JPM conference, she didn't say the company name. Why would she want any other name affiliated with a technology UTHR would soon exclusively own? JMHO Oddly I think it's good news for MNKD. Yes, the manufacturing revenue goes away, but there is no way UTHR would build their own manufacturing plant if DPI wasn't getting serious traction so there are the prospects for far greater royalties. I can't see them buying MNKD because in that case they would use or expand the existing facility. It's hard to tell, just more bread crumbs for us to speculate about. |
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