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Post by bones1026 on Oct 17, 2022 23:15:29 GMT -5
So you think GLP-1 and GIP decrease beta cell apoptosis and increase proliferation so you end up with more beta cells. Well that may be true like proper air inflation will result in better gas mileage. The problem we have is a flat tire. Over time the GLP1 fails. If I can get a 300lb PWD a 5% weight reduction in 3 months thats a huge lift off the pancreas but then it stops. If you can get 10% you can spot that person a mile away and a bigger lift off the pancreas. Then it stops and that big decrease in the 6 month A1c stops too. Then the PWD decides the GLP1 is not worth the cost and tummy ache and stops prescribing. There is another theory and a growing one with Covid that T2 is viral based. The thing is its not just one virus but several but Covid has brought new research and people are developing T2 a year later after Covid. My money is its viral based and I suspect the virus is effecting the released insulin which the body resists. You say "The higher the glucose level the greater the insulin resistance so if you correct early, as the body does, you need less insulin." OK - why? Its only after the body has released its own insulin so you should need less unless the insulin the body is releasing is no good and blocking the receptors. At that point you have the body's insulin and then you need 2x or 3x the afrezza to deal with the same carb load. Something is wrong with the insulin or maybe when the insulin is released the pancreas is also releasing an insulin like virus which blocks the receptors. Clearly an area for research but the fix is afrezza early before the pancreas releases a bunch of its insulin and the receptors are blocked. It works every time. We need no research for this, just give them the afrezza. You say you went back and looked at the numbers. The best data you can find was from the BMJ. Here are the prescription numbers which are hard to argue with and I am sticking with them www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7708309/ More so the proof is in the pudding - the ADA has a step program and says when the GLP1 fails add the SGLT2, then a DDP4 and then basal. Yes when the GLP1 fails. At the end they say give them the basal. Basal really? The first problem T2s have is loss of post prandial control which the GLP1s don't solve, nor the SGLT2 nor the DDP4s nor the basal. Hope springs eternal and I just hope Mike at some point does something to help the T2s. He says he is a T2 and takes afrezza. If the GLP1s were so good why didn't he start with a GLP1? Nope, he started with afrezza. Maybe Mike knows something your studies don't and the ADA doesn't want other T2s to know. Well said. The real question is, who really is this “aged hippie” all this time? Very smart man who spends an awful lot of time here. |
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Post by harryx1 on Oct 18, 2022 9:05:39 GMT -5
Maybe he works for or is associated with Lilly...
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Post by agedhippie on Oct 18, 2022 14:39:38 GMT -5
So you think GLP-1 and GIP decrease beta cell apoptosis and increase proliferation so you end up with more beta cells. Well that may be true like proper air inflation will result in better gas mileage. The problem we have is a flat tire. Over time the GLP1 fails. If I can get a 300lb PWD a 5% weight reduction in 3 months thats a huge lift off the pancreas but then it stops... This makes the traditional mistake of assuming that Type 2 diabetics are hugely overweight whereas that is just one variant, indeed in Asia the Type 2 diabetics are usually normal BMI. The problem with Type 2 is that it's highly diverse with over 120 genes involved at the last count I saw. It's why I think there will be a cure for Type 1 before Type 2. I find this area quite interesting and I have been following the Accelerator Hypothesis for a while. I wasn't clear here, I was talking about the immediate level rather than a longer period. If my level has gone from normal to 400 (I really shouldn't have eat the entire box of cupcakes) then I will have more insulin per 25 unit drop than if I had been at 200. This is Type 1, but I suspect Type 2 is the same. At the end of year two 70% of the patients will have stopped. That's not particularly out of line with other chronic preventative medication. The problem with Type 2 is that there is no immediate indication of the damage that non-compliance is doing - that's years away. Even blood pressure pills after hospitalization has a 50% fall off. What is the Afrezza retention rate? GLP-1 will fail, everything except insulin will fail because there is no upper limit on insulin dose sizes. There are u500 insulins (5 x regular strength) for a reason, and people taking well over 100u for a meal. GLP-1 is not a replacement for insulin. He made a decision to go that route, and I suspect he gets his Afrezza for free  More seriously; I believe diabetics should be allowed to pick their treatment and should have the greatest range possible. The problem is who pays? Every new T2 can use Afrezza from day one, it's just that they will have a fight getting cover and will likely have to pay for it themselves. This is because the trial data to make the case has not been produced to prove a better outcome in the long term. |
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Post by agedhippie on Oct 18, 2022 14:56:59 GMT -5
Well said. The real question is, who really is this “aged hippie” all this time? Very smart man who spends an awful lot of time here. Lots of people have spent an awful lot of time on the board. It fills in the time |
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Post by agedhippie on Oct 18, 2022 15:09:40 GMT -5
Maybe he works for or is associated with Lilly... [Tweet about GIP from Lilly] Or maybe because as a diabetic I keep up to date on the research papers so I can find ways to make my life easier. It doesn't have to be about the money. |
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Post by mytakeonit on Oct 18, 2022 15:29:40 GMT -5
Everything in life is about $$$. Even if you are the richest person in the world ... or the poorest ... it's all about money.
You may say it's good health ... but it's money that will keep you there.
But, that's mytakeonit (pre diabetic)
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Post by prcgorman2 on Oct 18, 2022 20:30:42 GMT -5
Well said. The real question is, who really is this “aged hippie” all this time? Very smart man who spends an awful lot of time here. Lots of people have spent an awful lot of time on the board. It fills in the time What I’ve noticed about you agedhippie is that sometimes you spend quite a bit of time on this board, and then might go for months without posting anything. My preference would be that you post more often. You’re obviously quite knowledgeable, and sharing your knowledge is valuable to the rest of us. I think you used to be more one-sided and maybe even anti-Afrezza, but you seemed to have evolved your view to be more even-handed. I like and respect that. I think we all do that so it seems natural and normal to me. Thank you to you, sayhey, Mango, peppy, sports, MTOI, oldfishtowner, and too many for me to remember to give credit to, even uvula, awesomo, and dare I say it, cretin, make good contributions. Thanks for being here. |
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Post by bones1026 on Oct 18, 2022 21:52:47 GMT -5
Maybe he works for or is associated with Lilly... [Tweet about GIP from Lilly] Or maybe because as a diabetic I keep up to date on the research papers so I can find ways to make my life easier. It doesn't have to be about the money. Makes perfect sense you read up on how to live a better life….and yet you feel a stock message board, is the best place for that? …that has never made sense to me. My fathers side of family all had diabetes..I’m fortunate to have dodged it so far.. if I did..I wouldn’t be on Eli Lilly’s ‘stocktwits’ boards looking for “ways to make my life easier”. Best of luck to you. |
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Post by sportsrancho on Oct 19, 2022 6:01:32 GMT -5
Lol…. bones:-)
You also think “Bill reads social media.”
I kept saying that I wasn’t gonna buy any more shares in my TD account until the stock got over $5 and stayed there for two months.. but I’m re-thinking that. I may buy some if we get under $3 because of overall market conditions.
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Post by peppy on Oct 19, 2022 7:04:07 GMT -5
Lol…. bones:-) You also think “Bill reads social media.” I kept saying that I wasn’t gonna buy any more shares in my TD account until the stock got over $5 and stayed there for two months.. but I’m re-thinking that. I may buy some if we get under $3 because of overall market conditions. Quote, "until the stock got over $5 and stayed there for two months." I remember you typing this out months ago. I believe I also read, scripts at 5,000.I was wondering if you were holding MNKD all these months, as the criteria you typed out hadn't been met. |
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Post by sportsrancho on Oct 19, 2022 7:26:43 GMT -5
I hold shares in my Roth, what I was talking about was my TD trading account. No I was not waiting for 5000 scripts a month, I just said we needed that.
I just didn’t want to hold shares that were dead money. If the stock gets over $5 Mike be able to make the rounds on CNBC to promote. We need to not be a penny stock! It limits us. But we’re getting so beaten down there’s opportunity if the market goes lower, many predict 3,100 on the S&P.
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Post by sayhey24 on Oct 19, 2022 14:02:08 GMT -5
I hold shares in my Roth, what I was talking about was my TD trading account. No I was not waiting for 5000 scripts a month, I just said we needed that. I just didn’t want to hold shares that were dead money. If the stock gets over $5 Mike be able to make the rounds on CNBC to promote. We need to not be a penny stock! It limits us. But we’re getting so beaten down there’s opportunity if the market goes lower, many predict 3,100 on the S&P. Net cash in-flow to huge retail companies like Vanguard has been shockingly good. I would not be betting on a 3100 S&P. The institutions have always been able to shake the tree and get the retail clients out. For some reason not this time and they made a few runs at it. We are also seeing energy prices falling in Europe and LNG ships stacking up in the ocean as depots are full. Even with Ukraine Europe should be OK through the winter. Earnings are also coming in strong. The old saying - Sell in May and go away. Come back after October to make the hay - may be very true this year. If you want the stock over $5 get Mike to announce an afrezza T2 plan. As part of that plan is a joint Lilly-MNKD Mounjaro/afrezza study with pilot results to be presented at ADA 2023. |
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More seriously; I believe diabetics should be allowed to pick their treatment and should have the greatest range possible. The problem is who pays? Every new T2 can use Afrezza from day one, it's just that they will have a fight getting cover and will likely have to pay for it themselves. This is because the trial data to make the case has not been produced to prove a better outcome in the long term.
