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Post by cppoly on Jan 10, 2024 19:38:24 GMT -5
Anyone listen to LQDA'S presentation today?
I honestly couldn't follow any of their taking points. I believe they were comparing Yutrepia to Tyvaso nebulizer. Definitely falling short comparing to Tyvaso DPI.
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 11, 2024 11:33:53 GMT -5
Anyone listen to LQDA'S presentation today? I honestly couldn't follow any of their taking points. I believe they were comparing Yutrepia to Tyvaso nebulizer. Definitely falling short comparing to Tyvaso DPI. Drug companies have to be careful comparing themselves to other drugs directly unless there is trial data for the comparison (one arm was your drug, another arm was their drug). Tyvaso nebulizer provides a way for them both to bridge between Tyvaso DPI and Yutrepia since neither has been compared to the other but both have been compared to Tyvaso nebulized. The slides for anyone who wants them. Slide 6 is interesting because it shows the conversion rate from all the UTHR Tyvaso products to Tyvaso DPI (the slide is apparently from a UTHR investor presentation) www.liquidia.com/static-files/83cf40bb-70ba-4345-90ed-307e89e0bafb |
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Post by cppoly on Jan 11, 2024 12:26:08 GMT -5
Anyone listen to LQDA'S presentation today? I honestly couldn't follow any of their taking points. I believe they were comparing Yutrepia to Tyvaso nebulizer. Definitely falling short comparing to Tyvaso DPI. Drug companies have to be careful comparing themselves to other drugs directly unless there is trial data for the comparison (one arm was your drug, another arm was their drug). Tyvaso nebulizer provides a way for them both to bridge between Tyvaso DPI and Yutrepia since neither has been compared to the other but both have been compared to Tyvaso nebulized. The slides for anyone who wants them. Slide 6 is interesting because it shows the conversion rate from all the UTHR Tyvaso products to Tyvaso DPI (the slide is apparently from a UTHR investor presentation) www.liquidia.com/static-files/83cf40bb-70ba-4345-90ed-307e89e0bafbBallparking slide 6, Q323 Tyvaso DPI sales are about 65 - 70%? |
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 11, 2024 12:42:11 GMT -5
Drug companies have to be careful comparing themselves to other drugs directly unless there is trial data for the comparison (one arm was your drug, another arm was their drug). Tyvaso nebulizer provides a way for them both to bridge between Tyvaso DPI and Yutrepia since neither has been compared to the other but both have been compared to Tyvaso nebulized. The slides for anyone who wants them. Slide 6 is interesting because it shows the conversion rate from all the UTHR Tyvaso products to Tyvaso DPI (the slide is apparently from a UTHR investor presentation) www.liquidia.com/static-files/83cf40bb-70ba-4345-90ed-307e89e0bafbBallparking slide 6, Q323 Tyvaso DPI sales are about 65 - 70%? It feels like that. I wouldn't be surprised to see Q1 around 75% since I think Q2/23 was an outlier looking at the progression and I would expect Q1/24 to be back in step again. |
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Post by cjm18 on Jan 11, 2024 13:38:04 GMT -5
Liquidia is saying their higher doses are tolerated better than tyvaso dpi
Uthr saying liquidia needs 3.3x the dose bc it does not get as deep into lungs.
Can we conclude liquidia doses are tolerated better bc less of it is getting to the lungs?
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Post by hellodolly on Jan 11, 2024 16:11:25 GMT -5
Liquidia is saying their higher doses are tolerated better than tyvaso dpi Uthr saying liquidia needs 3.3x the dose bc it does not get as deep into lungs. Can we conclude liquidia doses are tolerated better bc less of it is getting to the lungs? Tolerated battle vs. Toxicity battle. Is that how this is going to be argued by LQDA and UTHR? |
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Post by hellodolly on Jan 11, 2024 16:22:45 GMT -5
AEs v MCG.
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Post by tingtongtung on Jan 11, 2024 16:34:29 GMT -5
Ballparking slide 6, Q323 Tyvaso DPI sales are about 65 - 70%? It feels like that. I wouldn't be surprised to see Q1 around 75% since I think Q2/23 was an outlier looking at the progression and I would expect Q1/24 to be back in step again. I'm sure this is already covered. By the time LQDA comes online, if UTHR/MNKD would have already achieved 85-90%, how can LQDA even break in and be profitable? Especially as it looks like MNKD is better than LQDA in all usecases.. |
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 11, 2024 17:46:55 GMT -5
It feels like that. I wouldn't be surprised to see Q1 around 75% since I think Q2/23 was an outlier looking at the progression and I would expect Q1/24 to be back in step again. I'm sure this is already covered. By the time LQDA comes online, if UTHR/MNKD would have already achieved 85-90%, how can LQDA even break in and be profitable? Especially as it looks like MNKD is better than LQDA in all usecases.. There is a slide in there from Jewish National Health showing a drop out rate for Tyvaso DPI (between 50 and 60%). Doctors will move those patients on an alternative - nebulized Tyvaso or a different DPI. If DPI is a favored by the patient Yutrepia would be a logical alternative. Plus there are always new patients. |
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 11, 2024 17:48:51 GMT -5
Liquidia is saying their higher doses are tolerated better than tyvaso dpi Uthr saying liquidia needs 3.3x the dose bc it does not get as deep into lungs. Can we conclude liquidia doses are tolerated better bc less of it is getting to the lungs? We can conclude that drug companies will highlight their most favorable aspects when selling to investors  |
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Post by ryster505 on Jan 11, 2024 18:30:55 GMT -5
I'm sure this is already covered. By the time LQDA comes online, if UTHR/MNKD would have already achieved 85-90%, how can LQDA even break in and be profitable? Especially as it looks like MNKD is better than LQDA in all usecases.. There is a slide in there from Jewish National Health showing a drop out rate for Tyvaso DPI (between 50 and 60%). Doctors will move those patients on an alternative - nebulized Tyvaso or a different DPI. If DPI is a favored by the patient Yutrepia would be a logical alternative. Plus there are always new patients. 50-60% of what? |
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 11, 2024 18:50:15 GMT -5
There is a slide in there from Jewish National Health showing a drop out rate for Tyvaso DPI (between 50 and 60%). Doctors will move those patients on an alternative - nebulized Tyvaso or a different DPI. If DPI is a favored by the patient Yutrepia would be a logical alternative. Plus there are always new patients. 50-60% of what? Patients to whom Jewish National Health prescribed Tyvaso DPI. |
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Post by tingtongtung on Jan 11, 2024 19:06:48 GMT -5
I'm sure this is already covered. By the time LQDA comes online, if UTHR/MNKD would have already achieved 85-90%, how can LQDA even break in and be profitable? Especially as it looks like MNKD is better than LQDA in all usecases.. There is a slide in there from Jewish National Health showing a drop out rate for Tyvaso DPI (between 50 and 60%). Doctors will move those patients on an alternative - nebulized Tyvaso or a different DPI. If DPI is a favored by the patient Yutrepia would be a logical alternative. Plus there are always new patients. Thanks! Yeah - of course the new patients.. So, some patients will be going from Nebulized --> DPI --> Nebulized, or Nebulized --> DPI --> LQDA? Given the empirical data, the switch to LQDA will be almost based on non-scientific things? Not the right comparison. But, like the Afrezza struggle with an inferior drug? I have no idea about MNKD with $3.50 and falling. I timed well during the last 3 qtrs by selling just before earnings (when the price used to go up just before earnings), but got completely screwed from the last earnings. I'm used to that with MNKD :-( And, I have been holding since before the Afrezza approval.  |
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Post by harryx1 on Jan 12, 2024 10:10:13 GMT -5
I'm sure this is already covered. By the time LQDA comes online, if UTHR/MNKD would have already achieved 85-90%, how can LQDA even break in and be profitable? Especially as it looks like MNKD is better than LQDA in all usecases.. There is a slide in there from Jewish National Health showing a drop out rate for Tyvaso DPI (between 50 and 60%). Doctors will move those patients on an alternative - nebulized Tyvaso or a different DPI. If DPI is a favored by the patient Yutrepia would be a logical alternative. Plus there are always new patients. If we use common sense and logic and assuming that the 1 center didn't do any fudging (i.e. how sick are the patients, was it their last option, etc, etc, etc...) based on the adverse events of the trials for Tyvaso DPI vs. Yutrepia, the outcome very likely would be the same drop out rate or most likely even worse for Yutrepia. |
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 12, 2024 11:03:58 GMT -5
There is a slide in there from Jewish National Health showing a drop out rate for Tyvaso DPI (between 50 and 60%). Doctors will move those patients on an alternative - nebulized Tyvaso or a different DPI. If DPI is a favored by the patient Yutrepia would be a logical alternative. Plus there are always new patients. If we use common sense and logic and assuming that the 1 center didn't do any fudging (i.e. how sick are the patients, was it their last option, etc, etc, etc...) based on the adverse events of the trials for Tyvaso DPI vs. Yutrepia, the outcome very likely would be the same drop out rate or most likely even worse for Yutrepia. I think it's very unlikely they were fudging the numbers because the peer review will have asked for the data before it was accepted for the conference. What they are reporting is their experience with a new delivery mechanism for an established treatment (trepostinil) as a data point for comparison with other centers. I wouldn't disagree that having failed on Tyvaso DPI they likely will fail on Yutrepia (and vice versa), but they will still try them on the alternative because maybe it will work for them. The preference would logically be to find a working DPI solution given the satisfaction rates over nebulized delivery in both Tyvaso DPI and Yutrepia trials. |
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