|
|
Post by agedhippie on Oct 1, 2024 8:35:25 GMT -5
The trial data shared doesn't show that you can get a better A1c without being tethered to a pump, it shows that Afrezza is better than an aggregate of MDI, dumb pumps, and AID pumps. It may be the case that Afrezza does out-perform AID pumps, but right now we have no way of knowing since they didn't share that data. TIR is implied by A1c, but again there is no breakdown between the treatments so we don't know. ... Aged.....You have always had a love affair with pumps and not so much with Afrezza, can you at least admit that ? I think a "a love affair" is misleading. All the data I have seen says AID pumps are the current best solution, despite that I don't use a pump because I don't like pumps. You don't always adopt the optimal solution. |
|
|
|
Post by stevil on Oct 1, 2024 10:54:37 GMT -5
Slightly off topic. If we are trying to go from a1c to tir as the best way to measure goodness, we should invent a new term that gives the best picture of goodness. If I am correct that high is better than low, we need a tir measure that penalizes lows more than highs. Does this make sense? No need to complicate things further. CGMs give a % of time spent low. All one would need to do is reference that. |
|
|
|
Post by sayhey24 on Oct 1, 2024 12:14:58 GMT -5
Aged.....You have always had a love affair with pumps and not so much with Afrezza, can you at least admit that ? I think a "a love affair" is misleading. All the data I have seen says AID pumps are the current best solution, despite that I don't use a pump because I don't like pumps. You don't always adopt the optimal solution. I thought I recently saw a press release from Mannkind saying "More Adults With Type 1 Diabetes Achieved A1C Goal (<7%) After Switching From Multiple Daily Insulin Injections or Automated Pumps to Inhaled Insulin (Afrezza®)"? They had patients patients switch to Afrezza at week 17 from usual care, defined as multiple daily injections (MDI), an automated insulin delivery system, (AID) or a pump without automation. It seems from this press release afrezza beat the AID and is now the best solution if you are willing to take a shot a day and a few puffs with your meals. Then again no more fuss and muss with the pump. Don't you like this press release? |
|
|
|
Post by uvula on Oct 1, 2024 13:16:45 GMT -5
Sayhey, the press release does not say this. You can't just make some letters red and ignore the others.
|
|
|
|
Post by sayhey24 on Oct 1, 2024 13:24:32 GMT -5
Sayhey, the press release does not say this. You can't just make some letters red and ignore the others. Really - what does its say? I copied and pasted from the release. Is my cntrl-c broken? I guess I could have added this "Switching to, or remaining on Afrezza allowed twice as many people to get to goal during the extension phase" |
|
|
|
Post by ktim on Oct 1, 2024 13:44:46 GMT -5
At least the PR didn't mention some getting worse results when switching to Afrezza as the 17 week results did. Though I'm curious whether that also occurred with those switching for the extension.
I'm certainly not holding my breath on this changing the insurance situation. I suspect the probability of getting broad insurance coverage is similar to the probability some true cure for T1 is developed.
|
|
|
|
Post by uvula on Oct 1, 2024 14:29:08 GMT -5
Sayhey, the press release does not say this. You can't just make some letters red and ignore the others. Really - what does its say? I copied and pasted from the release. Is my cntrl-c broken? I guess I could have added this "Switching to, or remaining on Afrezza allowed twice as many people to get to goal during the extension phase" The comparison we are all interested in is afrezza vs AID. But all we know so far is afrezza patients vs the "mdi plus AID" patients all lumped together. The mdi folks probably do worse than the AID folks. |
|
|
|
Post by sayhey24 on Oct 1, 2024 16:45:53 GMT -5
Really - what does its say? I copied and pasted from the release. Is my cntrl-c broken? I guess I could have added this "Switching to, or remaining on Afrezza allowed twice as many people to get to goal during the extension phase" The comparison we are all interested in is afrezza vs AID. But all we know so far is afrezza patients vs the "mdi plus AID" patients all lumped together. The mdi folks probably do worse than the AID folks. We will have to wait for the details at ATTD. If the PR is properly worded all we know is "More Adults With Type 1 Diabetes Achieved A1C Goal (<7%) ... OR After Switching From Automated Pumps to Inhaled Insulin (Afrezza®) The PR uses the word "or" not "and" so at least one more achieved better results. We also know that AID users had better 2 hour post prandial control when taking afrezza than the AID users without afrezza. We also know that they cheated a little and had the PWDs take a puff of afrezza before bed which provided outstanding overnight BG control. The overnight BG control is where the AID should have kicked-ass but that little puff of afrezza did it. We also know that few people really want to wear a pump if they did not have to. Of course Aged would differ but then again he does not wear a pump. This is a nice study but the real payday will be with the kids and the gestational study will be a slam dunk. Heck, even Carol Levy could see the train was leaving the station and after 10+ years jumped on-board before it was too late. |
|
|
|
Post by agedhippie on Oct 1, 2024 16:52:04 GMT -5
I think a "a love affair" is misleading. All the data I have seen says AID pumps are the current best solution, despite that I don't use a pump because I don't like pumps. You don't always adopt the optimal solution. I thought I recently saw a press release from Mannkind saying "More Adults With Type 1 Diabetes Achieved A1C Goal (<7%) After Switching From Multiple Daily Insulin Injections or Automated Pumps to Inhaled Insulin (Afrezza®)"? ... You definitely saw that. Sadly, if you read what you posted you will see that it didn't say that Afrezza out-performed AID pumps, it said Afrezza out-performed usual care as defined by the trial. The data showing how Afrezza performed against AID pumps isn't broken out. |
|
|
|
Post by uvula on Oct 1, 2024 16:59:21 GMT -5
Do we know for certain that automated pump refers to AID and not a stand alone insulin pump? We want automated pump to mean AID but even "dumb" pumps are sophisticated computer controlled devices.
Another way to look at it: if mnkd wanted to be crystal clear that they were referring only to AIDs, they would have said AID. Press releases are never ambiguous unless it is in the company's advantage for people to make wrong assumptions by interpreting things incorrectly.
|
|
|
|
Post by porkini on Oct 1, 2024 18:24:51 GMT -5
Do we know for certain that automated pump refers to AID and not a stand alone insulin pump? We want automated pump to mean AID but even "dumb" pumps are sophisticated computer controlled devices. Another way to look at it: if mnkd wanted to be crystal clear that they were referring only to AIDs, they would have said AID. Press releases are never ambiguous unless it is in the company's advantage for people to make wrong assumptions by interpreting things incorrectly. Unless it's something like V-Go, and then maybe it's just weird? |
|
|
|
Post by agedhippie on Oct 1, 2024 19:22:05 GMT -5
Do we know for certain that automated pump refers to AID and not a stand alone insulin pump? We want automated pump to mean AID but even "dumb" pumps are sophisticated computer controlled devices. Another way to look at it: if mnkd wanted to be crystal clear that they were referring only to AIDs, they would have said AID. Press releases are never ambiguous unless it is in the company's advantage for people to make wrong assumptions by interpreting things incorrectly. The inclusion criteria for the trial says, " MDI, an AID system, or an insulin pump without automation. The PR says, "multiple daily injections (MDI), an automated insulin delivery system, (AID) or a pump without automation." I think it's safe to say automated pump means AID. You are correct though, even dumb pumps some automation because they change basal rates on a schedule you give it. |
|
|
|
Post by peppy on Oct 1, 2024 19:29:46 GMT -5
Do we know for certain that automated pump refers to AID and not a stand alone insulin pump? We want automated pump to mean AID but even "dumb" pumps are sophisticated computer controlled devices. Another way to look at it: if mnkd wanted to be crystal clear that they were referring only to AIDs, they would have said AID. Press releases are never ambiguous unless it is in the company's advantage for people to make wrong assumptions by interpreting things incorrectly. The inclusion criteria for the trial says, " MDI, an AID system, or an insulin pump without automation. The PR says, "multiple daily injections (MDI), an automated insulin delivery system, (AID) or a pump without automation." I think it's safe to say automated pump means AID. You are correct though, even dumb pumps some automation because they change basal rates on a schedule you give it. Blah blah blah. Did the peak times and the out of system times change on these Rapid Acting Subq insulins?  Hard to get the blood glucose control the correct use of Afrezza gives. |
|
|
|
Post by agedhippie on Oct 1, 2024 21:34:48 GMT -5
Blah blah blah. Did the peak times and the out of system times change on these Rapid Acting Subq insulins? Hard to get the blood glucose control the correct use of Afrezza gives. That's why AID pumps have predictive algorithms for insulin action. |
|
|
|
Post by sayhey24 on Oct 2, 2024 19:03:47 GMT -5
Blah blah blah. Did the peak times and the out of system times change on these Rapid Acting Subq insulins? Hard to get the blood glucose control the correct use of Afrezza gives. That's why AID pumps have predictive algorithms for insulin action. And, as Al Mann said there was no algorithm he could write which could over come the speed of the RAA . Now Al could write one hell of an algorithm but as he said the RAA was just too damn slow. Long story short, arfezza kicked the ass of the AID just as Al knew it would. The ATTD should be fun. We will get to see the Inhale-3 details and the kids data. Carol Levy jumped on the train just in time. |
|
