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Demand
Feb 2, 2015 17:03:08 GMT -5
Post by traderdennis on Feb 2, 2015 17:03:08 GMT -5
Perhaps an effective Sanofi strategy could be to provide docs with a starter spirometer at a cost to Sanofi that would have a relatively low impact on the marketing budget. Certainly would eliminate a doc's excuse of not having a spirometer as a reason for not prescribing Afrezza and provide a contribution margin to measured increase in incremental sales. I suspect it would probably come across as a positive to long investors and a disappointment to the shorts. Competitors would react to it as an "ah shxt moment".
I googled spirometer prices and found quite a range. This site sells spirometers from a low of $10 for a simple device to over $30,000 for an over-the-top star trek device: www.medicaldevicedepot.com/Spirometers-s/30.htm?searching=Y&sort=1&cat=30&show=25&page=1 I am suprised they just don't give them away with a huge Sanofi / Afrezza / Sanofi's asthma inhaler product plastered in the center. |
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Demand
Feb 2, 2015 17:38:50 GMT -5
Post by babaoriley on Feb 2, 2015 17:38:50 GMT -5
Those are obviously sex toys, Spiro, shame on you!! |
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Post by babaoriley on Feb 2, 2015 18:11:08 GMT -5
As someone who was involved with Exubera, I can state that Pfizer definitely miscalculated the spirometry requirement. With 30% of GP’s and 0% of Endo’s utilizing spirometry in their practice, the majority of patients had to be referred to pulmonologists; who were not pleased to be testing asymptomatic diabetes patients. Spirometry is not as easy as drawing blood or performing an x-ray, it requires patient effort and cooperation. Giving spirometers (which are reimbursable) to physicians is not an option or Pfizer would have done so. From what I’m hearing here, it doesn’t appear SNY has yet addressed this impediment. A warm welcome to the board, primarygp! I'm pretty sure we'd all rather there not be any test at all, but such is life,we all have our crosses to bear. My understanding of the spirometry issue is this, and it's quite a scandalous story, and it certainly supports your concern, which we are all happy you shared with us. I'd missed this issue, too, and I'm depressed about it, and so I did some digging and here's the skinny: Apparently, during the negotiations with Sanofi, MNKD became aware that Sanofi had totally missed the issue of and requirement for spirometry! I know, this sounds hard to believe, but if you can believe the Seahawks' call from the 1 yard line, you can easily believe this! Once MNKD became aware that Sanofi was so dumb (which cut both ways, you understand, since MNKD was about to hand them the keys to this whole deal), they really didn't bring it up. So, finally, when the deal is fully inked, MNKD asks Sanofi, "how do you plan to handle the spirometry issue?" The color of red emanating from the faces of the main dealmakers for Sanofi could be seen from the top of the Eiffel Tower! Sanofi indicated that they would never, ever, ever, ever have made such a deal if they knew spirometry was required, and heads rolled at Sanofi, including the CEO's. It was only later, after much gnashing of teeth, and working of Madame Guillotine at the highest corporate levels, that they found out spirometry is not that big of a deal. There is evidence of an email from a lower level Sanofi "gopher" sent to top level execs, with the Wikipedia description of "spirometry," which, naturally, put an end to the issue then and there! However, by then, the damage had been done and several careers had been derailed! These kind of unbelievable things happen so rarely, and here we are, right in the midst of such a thing!! I heard the above from my barber, whose son goes to school with the son of a nanny, who tends to a kid who is friends with another kid, whose father's cousin once worked for Sanofi. So, you can see why I'm confident the above is correct - I have a good feeling for this type of stuff. By the way, primarygp, you didn't have the mandatory "Long time reader, first time poster," line in your initial post. That's bad form, as it is a mandatory exercise and you may be disqualified based on that, but, perhaps you will only have some points deducted. Long time posters here always get excited when they hear that anyone has been a "long time reader." |
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Post by ezrasfund on Feb 2, 2015 18:32:01 GMT -5
Baba, are you a lawyer or a stand up comic? Some might say (not me!) the two aren't so different.
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Demand
Feb 2, 2015 18:42:11 GMT -5
Post by od on Feb 2, 2015 18:42:11 GMT -5
As someone who was involved with Exubera, I can state that Pfizer definitely miscalculated the spirometry requirement. With 30% of GP’s and 0% of Endo’s utilizing spirometry in their practice, the majority of patients had to be referred to pulmonologists; who were not pleased to be testing asymptomatic diabetes patients. Spirometry is not as easy as drawing blood or performing an x-ray, it requires patient effort and cooperation. Giving spirometers (which are reimbursable) to physicians is not an option or Pfizer would have done so. From what I’m hearing here, it doesn’t appear SNY has yet addressed this impediment. A warm welcome to the board, primarygp! I'm pretty sure we'd all rather there not be any test at all, but such is life,we all have our crosses to bear. My understanding of the spirometry issue is this, and it's quite a scandalous story, and it certainly supports your concern, which we are all happy you shared with us. I'd missed this issue, too, and I'm depressed about it, and so I did some digging and here's the skinny: Apparently, during the negotiations with Sanofi, MNKD became aware that Sanofi had totally missed the issue of and requirement for spirometry! I know, this sounds hard to believe, but if you can believe the Seahawks' call from the 1 yard line, you can easily believe this! Once MNKD became aware that Sanofi was so dumb (which cut both ways, you understand, since MNKD was about to hand them the keys to this whole deal), they really didn't bring it up. So, finally, when the deal is fully inked, MNKD asks Sanofi, "how do you plan to handle the spirometry issue?" The color of red emanating from the faces of the main dealmakers for Sanofi could be seen from the top of the Eiffel Tower! Sanofi indicated that they would never, ever, ever, ever have made such a deal if they knew spirometry was required, and heads rolled at Sanofi, including the CEO's. It was only later, after much gnashing of teeth, and working of Madame Guillotine at the highest corporate levels, that they found out spirometry is not that big of a deal. There is evidence of an email from a lower level Sanofi "gopher" sent to top level execs, with the Wikipedia description of "spirometry," which, naturally, put an end to the issue then and there! However, by then, the damage had been done and several careers had been derailed! These kind of unbelievable things happen so rarely, and here we are, right in the midst of such a thing!! I heard the above from my barber, whose son goes to school with the son of a nanny, who tends to a kid who is friends with another kid, whose father's cousin once worked for Sanofi. So, you can see why I'm confident the above is correct - I have a good feeling for this type of stuff. By the way, primarygp, you didn't have the mandatory "Long time reader, first time poster," line in your initial post. That's bad form, as it is a mandatory exercise and you may be disqualified based on that, but, perhaps you will only have some points deducted. Long time posters here always get excited when they hear that anyone has been a "long time reader." Is it me, or is this starting to sound like YMB? Do any of us believe our individual comments will affect the price of MNKD? I am here as part of my diligence process; I do not currently have a position in SNY or MNKD (will probably change soon). I have learned a lot from others, and Newbie, or not, if I have knowledge that might help others, I will share it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2015 18:47:11 GMT -5
I think the tone of responses with regards to spirometry is because longs have had to endure it for quite some time, and frankly I don't think a good portion would be longs if they thought it was a significant impediment.
It's a simple test, and should not be a barrier to receiving better care (which is what many longs here truly feel about afrezza).
Will there be some issues with some people getting it? Probably, but some people have to take the bus to the pharmacy, too.
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Post by babaoriley on Feb 2, 2015 18:51:48 GMT -5
Baba, are you a lawyer or a stand up comic? Some might say (not me!) the two aren't so different. I quote myself: "missed the issue of and requirement for spirometry" - c'mon, Ezra, no one writes like this except a friggin lawyer! |
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Post by liane on Feb 2, 2015 18:56:04 GMT -5
od,
As you can see, we have members here who are well-equipped to deal with FUD-sters. Nobody said it can't be with a sense of humor.
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Demand
Feb 2, 2015 19:35:44 GMT -5
Post by od on Feb 2, 2015 19:35:44 GMT -5
I think the tone of responses with regards to spirometry is because longs have had to endure it for quite some time, and frankly I don't think a good portion would be longs if they thought it was a significant impediment. It's a simple test, and should not be a barrier to receiving better care (which is what many longs here truly feel about afrezza). Will there be some issues with some people getting it? Probably, but some people have to take the bus to the pharmacy, too. Thanks for the sane response. I agree that primarygp's comment regarding spirometry not being a 'simple' test was questionable, but must it invalidate the overall comment. It is well documented that complying with Exubera's black box was one of many factors that contributed to the product's demise. If primary gp was involved with Exubera, then why should he/she not be concerned. I have said before that I believe that over time spirometer penetration will resolve itself. Call me selfish, but as a potential investor I want to know that any appropriate patient is worked-up and prescribed Afrezza with one office visit. I lived through the Inhale Therapeutics Systems/Nektar/Pfizer debacle and have a latent fear of deja vu all over again. I know Afrezza will be a wild success and will be a fellow long soon. |
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Post by Chris-C on Feb 2, 2015 19:36:06 GMT -5
od, As you can see, we have members here who are well-equipped to deal with FUD-sters. Nobody said it can't be with a sense of humor. Liane: Indeed. Somehow it seems "od" to me that people visiting the board as part of their due diligence so often feel inclined to share their reservations and uncertainties with others on the board (as though, perhaps, we hadn't heard or considered them before over the past 5+ years, clueless as we are with discovering such insights). I'm grateful for their benevolent intentions, though. GLTAL Chris-C |
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Demand
Feb 2, 2015 19:41:44 GMT -5
Post by od on Feb 2, 2015 19:41:44 GMT -5
od, As you can see, we have members here who are well-equipped to deal with FUD-sters. Nobody said it can't be with a sense of humor. I get it. But sometimes (too often?) if you are not preaching to the choir, watch out. Something tells me if we were having the same discussion at Exubera's launch, the lung function testing requirement would have been similarly dismissed. I have my share of investment hits and misses. Anyone here without a miss or two? |
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Demand
Feb 2, 2015 19:53:50 GMT -5
Post by esstan2001 on Feb 2, 2015 19:53:50 GMT -5
I was a long time reeeeder once, and I liked this post !!!!
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Post by hopetoretire on Feb 2, 2015 19:54:24 GMT -5
od, As you can see, we have members here who are well-equipped to deal with FUD-sters. Nobody said it can't be with a sense of humor. I get it. But sometimes (too often?) if you are not preaching to the choir, watch out. Something tells me if we were having the same discussion at Exubera's launch, the lung function testing requirement would have been similarly dismissed. I have my share of investment hits and misses. Anyone here without a miss or two? Life is too short to read 50 posts about the pros and cons and minutia of a simple breath test that everyone knew about before the discussion started. I don't want to have to research how to 'ignore' on this site. In all these years, it hasn't been necessary...so far.... |
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Demand
Feb 2, 2015 20:07:49 GMT -5
Post by od on Feb 2, 2015 20:07:49 GMT -5
I get it. But sometimes (too often?) if you are not preaching to the choir, watch out. Something tells me if we were having the same discussion at Exubera's launch, the lung function testing requirement would have been similarly dismissed. I have my share of investment hits and misses. Anyone here without a miss or two? Life is too short to read 50 posts about the pros and cons and minutia of a simple breath test that everyone knew about before the discussion started. I don't want to have to research how to 'ignore' on this site. In all these years, it hasn't been necessary...so far.... Good advice hopetoretire. I started this thread with a simple comment about a CVS experience, and ended up down a rabbit hole. Thanks for asking me to look in the mirror. Cheers. |
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Post by babaoriley on Feb 2, 2015 20:22:26 GMT -5
I think the tone of responses with regards to spirometry is because longs have had to endure it for quite some time, and frankly I don't think a good portion would be longs if they thought it was a significant impediment. It's a simple test, and should not be a barrier to receiving better care (which is what many longs here truly feel about afrezza). Will there be some issues with some people getting it? Probably, but some people have to take the bus to the pharmacy, too. Thanks for the sane response. I agree that primarygp's comment regarding spirometry not being a 'simple' test was questionable, but must it invalidate the overall comment. It is well documented that complying with Exubera's black box was one of many factors that contributed to the product's demise. If primary gp was involved with Exubera, then why should he/she not be concerned. I have said before that I believe that over time spirometer penetration will resolve itself. Call me selfish, but as a potential investor I want to know that any appropriate patient is worked-up and prescribed Afrezza with one office visit. I lived through the Inhale Therapeutics Systems/Nektar/Pfizer debacle and have a latent fear of deja vu all over again. I know Afrezza will be a wild success and will be a fellow long soon. Od, you wrote above, "I know Afrezza will be a wild success and will be a fellow long soon." And you have taken great pains in many of your posts to point out your neutrality in terms of share ownership (or negative ownership, as in shortness, which is also strongly implied by your posts). So let me give you the one and only reason I can figure you are not a long yet (cuz why would you risk the price running away from you with this "wild success" of a company). It's cuz you're waiting for some money with which to invest. At the same time, however, you've indicated or at least implied that this is not your first rodeo, so it's unlikely that you don't have any other stocks right now. So, you must be holding stocks that look at least as good as the "wild success" that you know MNKD will be, otherwise you would sell a portion of them to get into MNKD now, as no one knows which way it's going, but again, why take a chance on losing out on a "wild success." So, I guess, this is a long-winded way (Ezra, another clue) of saying please share with us these other "wild success" stories that you likely currently hold, I've said for years we should diversify!! |
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