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Post by kimi on Aug 7, 2015 6:47:35 GMT -5
Price for the new package 60-8 Units and 30-12 Units is $315
BND 00024-5894-63 3.50545 AFREZZA 60-8 UNIT + 30-12 UNIT G SANOFI-AVENTIS EA
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Post by dg1111 on Aug 7, 2015 9:30:10 GMT -5
Was the pricing stated in the original post for a 3 month supply? If so, it is still very high, but a little more understandable. A cost of $800 per month would price out most people. Even 1/3 of that is too expensive for most people.
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Post by compound26 on Aug 7, 2015 9:39:05 GMT -5
I think this post, along with joeypotsandpans's post quoted below, confirms that insurance coverage is the biggest roadblock that Afrezza has to overcome for now. See coverage of Afrezza vs Toujeo in formularylookup.com Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedJul 31, 2015 14:51:10 GMT -5 joeypotsandpans said: Insurance, insurance, insurance....what did everyone expect Olivier to say..."as for Afrezza, we have two thousand patients that are being held back due to their healthcare providers not covering...btw, the same providers that we negotiated great coverage for with Toujeo and continue to need for our new cholesterol drug, etc. etc." Did you think he would get into an alienating pissing match with the insurance companies while he is launching the successor to Lantus? No it continues to be a diplomatic process. As I've stated in the past, when you're stepping on sleeping giants toes you need to be careful so as to not wake them up....I think their eyes are open and the battle will continue to be unprecedented. They call this a battleground stock for good reason, there is so much at stake it is mind boggling and understandable why formidable forces continue to be at work. When you have Sam's and Eric's and now Laura's among others stating "why isn't every diabetic on this?" believe me those giants are hearing those screams! On a side note, SNY reported much better than expected numbers beating both top and bottom line, they were hammered at the open too and have since been climbing...I would rather have a healthy partner that continues to want to be aggressive in the space we're in than one struggling. Again, just sayin Maybe this helps drive the point home...my exchange yesterday (for the purposes of protecting any identity will omit certain specifics regarding the actual health plan connected to the conversation): Me: Is medicare (plan xxxxx) good to go with Afrezza? At lunch with a T2 who sees Dr.xxxxxxx...he's got her on Levemir and Metformin...she wants to get on it!! (Afrezza) Response: plan xxxxxx for one of our doctor's patients now, the PA (prior authorization) was denied so the doctor wrote a letter of medical necessity....plan xxxxxx advised SPC (Sanofi Patient Connection) that the letter probably wouldn't work, but SPC sent it anyway. I'll let you know if we get any positive results. plan xxxxxx is XYZ's (local provider) medicare so unfortunately they follow XYZ's restriction to new products. Our SPC team is trying to push. Me: K....need to get her on Toujeo also (said in jest due to the Levemir part of the conversation) Response: That should be a lot easier for her. There are less formulary issues on that bc it's the same molecule as Lantus, so many insurance plans lift the new to market block! So two takeaway's here: 1. For those that have been watching the weekly scripts and get disappointed please know that there is a great deal of pent up demand that is bottle necked in the system due to the insurance issues...I didn't get into how many patients since the 24 they previously mentioned but if you multiply that by 100 (don't know specific number of reps across the US that are designated solely for Afrezza sales but taking an average of 2 per state as a conservative number others may have dual or more products they are responsible for) that projects to 2400 scripts let alone renewals that are being held up. 2. For those that have been claiming their (Sanofi's) efforts have been geared more towards Toujeo, the latter part of their statement regarding the "new product restriction" block being removed should help you understand why Toujeo sales have been as strong from launch as they have on a relative basis (among other reasons ie., getting ahead of the Lantus attrition etc.). The point continues to be that they are doing what they can on both fronts simultaneously, educating the caregivers and working with patients to get their insurance issues resolved but it is and continues to be a block by block process. In the interim it is creating a growing pent up demand IMO. Enjoy the weekend all mnkd.proboards.com/post/33332/quote/3070?page=2
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Post by joeypotsandpans on Aug 7, 2015 9:44:57 GMT -5
Compound you get it! I PM'd Rozale to see if I could help, maybe get him in touch with SNY rep in his region. They are working diligently with these types of patients and their practitioners and SPC (Sanofi Patient Connection) team in addressing these issues. So based on Rozale's statement, you could add him to the "backlog" number behind the dam so to speak...now you get the picture of what pent up demand growth will translate to when the flood gates open
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Post by jay1ajay1a on Aug 7, 2015 10:09:23 GMT -5
Reviewing what Compound said and the data on Formularylookup, Afrezza is only has preferred insurance status of 4% vs. Toujeo's 28%. Toujeo vs. Afrezza overall on Formularylookup on 08.07.2015.
Insurance Status Toujeo Afrezza Preferred 28% 4% Covered 23% 21% Restricted 28% 43% Not Covered 22% 32%
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Post by compound26 on Aug 7, 2015 10:13:26 GMT -5
Compound you get it! I PM'd Rozale to see if I could help, maybe get him in touch with SNY rep in his region. They are working diligently with these types of patients and their practitioners and SPC (Sanofi Patient Connection) team in addressing these issues. So based on Rozale's statement, you could add him to the "backlog" number behind the dam so to speak...now you get the picture of what pent up demand growth will translate to when the flood gates open Thanks, Joey. As Afrezza has been launched for a full 6 months period now, hopefully the insurance companies is starting to lift their blocks on Afrezza. Per the latest quarterly report of Sanofi, for Toujeo, it is now 45% tier 2, 28% tier 3 for commercial insurances, and 91% tier 2 for Medicare (see page 8 of the attached Sanofi presentation). I have confidence in Sanofi in addressing the insurance issues. Granted, it will take time. Attachment Deleted
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Post by mnholdem on Aug 7, 2015 10:16:03 GMT -5
An excellent post, compound. There will still be some patience required of MNKD investors and shorter-term traders ;-) because the expiration of the 6-month new drug restrictions isn't like the start of the Kentucky Derby. The gates to all these 3rd Party Payers aren't going to fly open all at once.
However, I would be disappointed if Sanofi has not been aggressively negotiating and has already reached some agreements with at least some of the biggest payers, which should result in a sharp uptick in prescription sales. Also, Sanofi will not get them all, as evidenced by some formularies I have located that have ONLY Novo-Nordisk insulin products NovoLog and Levemir at Tier 2, while Eli-Lilly and Sanofi products are Tier 3, including Lantus, or are not covered by that payer at all. I am not suggesting any illegal, but the formularies of some insurers does cause me to raise my eyebrows.
I am of the opinion that the price Sanofi has set for Afrezza was set intentionally high in preparation for these negotiations and that comments made by MNKD management at numerous 2014-2015 conferences that Afrezza will be competitively-priced against popular RAA prandials was forward-speaking about where Afrezza pricing will fall in after initial Sanofi-Payer negotiations are done.
We'll see in this 2nd half - or should we all be using Matt's phrase of "stay tuned"?
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Post by kbrion77 on Aug 7, 2015 10:26:33 GMT -5
Reviewing what Compound said and the data on Formularylookup, Afrezza is only has preferred insurance status of 4% vs. Toujeo's 28%. Toujeo vs. Afrezza overall on Formularylookup on 08.07.2015. Insurance Status Toujeo Afrezza Preferred 28% 4% Covered 23% 21% Restricted 28% 43% Not Covered 22% 32% I've been trying to wrap my head around the shorts angle and I'm wondering if this is their biggest bet. Do you think they are betting on the Insurance roadblock being too big of a hurdle to overcome?
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Post by kc on Aug 7, 2015 10:26:51 GMT -5
I am of the opinion that the price Sanofi has set for Afrezza was set intentionally high in preparation for these negotiations and that comments made by MNKD management at numerous 2014-2015 conferences that Afrezza will be competitively-priced against popular RAA prandials was forward-speaking about where Afrezza pricing will fall in after initial Sanofi-Payer negotiations are done. We'll see in this 2nd half - or should we all be using Matt's phrase of "stay tuned"? Well stated. You first have to test the market on pricing as you know that Insurance companies will work hard to get your pricing reduced. Sanofi / MannKind know that they have to be competitive with branded insulin or they won't sell the product. This is just a positioning of getting into the formulary and than negotiating a better deal. The insurance companies want the best outcome to keep the patient in good health, out of the hospital, and with minimal or progressive complications that cost them $$$ in future treatment. Afrezza will be a drug that will help keep their patients compliant and with less progressive complications. We just have to be patient.
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Post by compound26 on Aug 7, 2015 10:30:20 GMT -5
An excellent post, compound. There will still be some patience required of MNKD investors and shorter-term traders ;-) because the expiration of the 6-month new drug restrictions isn't like the start of the Kentucky Derby. The gates to all these 3rd Party Payers aren't going to fly open all at once. However, I would be disappointed if Sanofi has not been aggressively negotiating and has already reached some agreements with at least some of the biggest payers, which should result in a sharp uptick in prescription sales. Also, Sanofi will not get them all, as evidenced by some formularies I have located that have ONLY Novo-Nordisk insulin products NovoLog and Levemir at Tier 2, while Eli-Lilly and Sanofi products are Tier 3, including Lantus, or are not covered by that payer at all. I am not suggesting any illegal, but the formularies of some insurers does cause me to raise my eyebrows. I am of the opinion that the price Sanofi has set for Afrezza was set intentionally high in preparation for these negotiations and that comments made by MNKD management at numerous 2014-2015 conferences that Afrezza will be competitively-priced against popular RAA prandials was forward-speaking about where Afrezza pricing will fall in after initial Sanofi-Payer negotiations are done. We'll see in this 2nd half - or should we all be using Matt's phrase of "stay tuned"? mnholdem, agree with your analysis. Regarding your comment "the price Sanofi has set for Afrezza was set intentionally high in preparation for these negotiations and that comments made by MNKD management at numerous 2014-2015 conferences that Afrezza will be competitively-priced against popular RAA prandials was forward-speaking about where Afrezza pricing will fall in after initial Sanofi-Payer negotiations are done", I also agree it is a reasonable assumption and hopefully that is the case. Based on the information Rozale provided, even assuming we get better insurance coverage soon, it appears Sanofi does need to lower the price to make Afrezza competitive in terms of pricing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 10:49:09 GMT -5
Perhaps Sanofi wanted to prime the pump a bit and show the insurers how effective Afrezza is at controlling glucose levels and reducing A1C. Makes for a bit of leverage for a new product when negotiating price if it produces stellar results.
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Post by robsacher on Aug 7, 2015 10:52:55 GMT -5
Thank you for your message.
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Post by jay1ajay1a on Aug 7, 2015 11:09:31 GMT -5
Kbrion, I think the Shorts know that the drug will prevail and they are playing this game of pushing and bashing the stock because they can. I truly believe that this will end and when it does it will be worth all this pain.
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Post by kbrion77 on Aug 7, 2015 11:41:57 GMT -5
Kbrion, I think the Shorts know that the drug will prevail and they are playing this game of pushing and bashing the stock because they can. I truly believe that this will end and when it does it will be worth all this pain. But why continue this astronomical short float when there are so many catalysts that could cripple them? All over a small biotech company?!?!?! Pre Afrezza licensing and FDA approval the games though ridiculously manipulated were probably an easy money maker, but now all it would take would be 1 catalyst that could crush them. I've done my due diligence and am comfortable with my investment in MNKD but I just can't get their current angle. They are much smarter individuals than myself but I mean am I giving them too much credit? The pessimistic side of me still says they have inside knowledge on a slow Sanofi strategy for Afrezza or a major roadblock like not being able to obtain the desired Insurance coverage.
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Post by notamnkdmillionaire on Aug 7, 2015 11:50:12 GMT -5
Kbrion, I think the Shorts know that the drug will prevail and they are playing this game of pushing and bashing the stock because they can. I truly believe that this will end and when it does it will be worth all this pain. But why continue this astronomical short float when there are so many catalysts that could cripple them? All over a small biotech company?!?!?! Pre Afrezza licensing and FDA approval the games though ridiculously manipulated were probably an easy money maker, but now all it would take would be 1 catalyst that could crush them. I've done my due diligence and am comfortable with my investment in MNKD but I just can't get their current angle. They are much smarter individuals than myself but I mean am I giving them too much credit? The pessimistic side of me still says they have inside knowledge on a slow Sanofi strategy for Afrezza or a major roadblock like not being able to obtain the desired Insurance coverage. Shorts don't believe there are any catalysts that would be big enough to endanger them. The odds are in their favor, not Mannkinds. Look over the last 2 years. Not one news event was a catalyst to cause a massive stock jump. Not ADCOM, FDA approval (yes stock did go up but not by leaps and bounds) or Sanofi deal. The shorts do not believe for a second that Mannkind will ever prosper. So far they have been right.
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